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X Window System Turns 38 Years Old

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  • #11
    Originally posted by cynic View Post

    there are people that act like that whenever there is a technical innovation.

    * who need cars? horses are just fine and car are dangerous and get stuck in mud.
    * who need electricity? candles are good enough, and are not as dangerous as electricity is.
    * who need the internet? Faxes are working perfectly, email is clunky!
    * who need wayland? there are several case where X11 works out of the box! Just stay with it forever!
    Wayland is more like electric cars and X is gas cars. Wayland has a few models but it still doesn't offer things like trucks & motorcycles as well as it is so new that your town (distro) might not even have charging stations. While we'd be better off with electric cars, there aren't enough charging stations, green power plants, or varieties of models available to make it viable for everyone. Plus, affordable electric cars are more of a pipe dream than Wayland with HDR and VRR, the Year of the Linux Desktop, or GNOME adopting server side decorations.

    Tell that to the whales...or any animal Edison came across...

    Email is clunky. I read the kernel mailing list articles.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Volta View Post

      I bet 20024 can be safely assumed as Wayland only Linux desktop on all major Linux distributions. Maybe even 20023.
      Fixed that for you.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by cl333r View Post

        Fixed that for you.
        We're not talking about your descendant basement.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by binarybanana View Post
          I can see myself going with Arcan (even shinier and newer, too!) eventually, but not Wayland.
          Ah yes, Arcan, the thing that solves no issues and is worse then the thing it tries to replace and the thing it competes with. Sure, lets go with that.

          Wayland does not take away, it forces issues to be solved the right way. Lets take screen recording for example, the classic "muh features".
          Do you know how that works under Xorg? A application just reads the output buffer, any application can do that, at any time. Now we have a proper API for that, with user control and the lowest latency available(1 frame), that is secure, where the user has full control about it and does not just have to blindly trust the application.

          And we can do that with all the other misfeatures of Xorg, like keybinding via allowing every application to just read every keypress at all time. How about a clean modern API for that, where the user has control about what a application is allowed to do.

          This is just embarrassing, and just does not work in a future where not every application can be fully trusted.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

            or GNOME adopting server side decorations.
            Why should Gnome shoot itself in the foot by adopting old mistakes into a modern protocol.

            Why should two processes be responsible for drawing one window, it was madness in the past and never properly worked, why in gods name should we do that BS again.

            KDE adopted that because why should they care if something sucks, producing a desktop that sucks is in their DNA.

            Again there already is a proper solution, which is either already adopted by the usual "toolkits" like SDL2. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...L2-Wayland-CSD

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            • #16
              People will still be using X11 desktops and window managers like Mint, Xfce, Cinnamon, Fluxbox, Xmonad, DWM, i3, Herbstluftwm, Spectrwm, Stumpwm, icewm, JWM, ratpoison, CWM, etc in 2030 I bet. Gnome and RedHat will use Wayland sure but I know like one person who daily drives Gnome, everyone else hates it.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by cynic View Post
                there are people that act like that whenever there is a technical innovation.

                * who need cars? horses are just fine and car are dangerous and get stuck in mud.
                * who need electricity? candles are good enough, and are not as dangerous as electricity is.
                * who need the internet? Faxes are working perfectly, email is clunky!
                * who need wayland? there are several case where X11 works out of the box! Just stay with it forever!
                This analogy is so ass.

                It's more like Wayland is a fragile 4x4 car that gets demolished on any impact vs X11 a heavy off-road jeep. Wayland be like "you don't need it, just drive on city roads lol" and then you get stuck in mud. And yes it's a design problem.

                Getting stuck (unable to do things) vs being less efficient at that one specific task? Who gives a fuck about the latter.

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                • #18
                  It only becomes a thing of the past because of the unnecessary Wayland being inserted everywhere, not because Wayland can in theory be successful.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by binarybanana View Post
                    There are also pepole who mindlessly jump on the new shiny thing even though it's technically and functionally deficient.
                    "New shiny thing" had stable release 10 years ago and development started 14 years ago. It's funny how sometimes Wayland is "old and still unable to beat X11" and sometimes is "new shiny thing".

                    Wayland clearly still has some issues and it's definitely not perfect but neither X11 is. "Mature" doesn't mean "better" and Wayland was created for certain reasons, not because creator was bored with "old and perfectly working solution". Old sure but perfectly working? In some cases sure but not in all and ignoring them is not a solution. Especially when other operating systems can handle such things.

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                    • #20
                      Wake me up when Wayland is 38 years old. Maybe I'll switch to it then.

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