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Microsoft Reworks The "DXGKRNL" Driver It Wants To Get Into The Linux Kernel

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  • #51
    Originally posted by mSparks View Post

    it still also needs an OSS use case. AFAIK If it cant be run/tested and useful on 100% GPL, its not suitable for inclusion.

    So as long as it requires closed source software like windows to be useful its never going to get in.
    Except this case is more akin to needing the hardware to test a driver. Userspace (the Gallium3D driver) is open. What's below the kernel is below the kernel for any hardware, which is closed in most cases, and which you need in all cases.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by sinepgib View Post

      Except this case is more akin to needing the hardware to test a driver. Userspace (the Gallium3D driver) is open. What's below the kernel is below the kernel for any hardware, which is closed in most cases, and which you need in all cases.
      Those cases don't get (meaningful/non bug fix) Kernel changes either. They get what they are given and its their responsibility to work with that.
      Also, no, windows is just another piece of software, not hardware. Not a difficult distinction.
      Last edited by mSparks; 13 January 2022, 09:29 PM.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

        while I agree with a lot of what's said here. IMO is misses the biggest part. Devs who don't think about the "common" user want a "run" dialog on windows? super+ R, want it on linux, ALT + f2, or alt + space, (the latter is more annoying than anything else).

        The two biggest DEs are a shit show, Gnome still needs you to do stupid shit like enter cmd commands to enable fractional scaling, and has three seperate bloody applications for managing the desktop.

        KDE is no better, OOB kde IMO is terrible too, the looks IMO ain't great, almost none of the default apps are consistent yet, and It just feels overall more buggy.

        and I can go on and on with almost every DE. But the issues don't stop there

        There are distros that by default, do incredibly stupid shit, like blacklisting broadcom drivers. Im sure a first time linux user will have a blast when that happens.
        And here I am using F12 and Yakuake as my run dialog. Am I doing it wrong?

        How you feel about KDE is how I feel about GNOME in regards to OOTB looks and consistency. That said, KDE looks too damn flat. Not that GNOME doesn't look flat, but KDE has an ass as flat as a 2x4. I miss the old faux-3d themes. That said, the current Breeze Dark is one of the best OOTB, default themes I've ever used.

        Yeah, pick the wrong distro and you'll have a really good time until you learn about free vs non-free and repositories that are hosted in other places with that have builds of software with slightly different compiler flags...the builds you actually want to use sitting next to the drivers that'll make your hardware work.

        Not that Windows and macOS don't have their share of problems, but at least some dude's feelings on a license isn't one of them.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

          And here I am using F12 and Yakuake as my run dialog. Am I doing it wrong?

          How you feel about KDE is how I feel about GNOME in regards to OOTB looks and consistency. That said, KDE looks too damn flat. Not that GNOME doesn't look flat, but KDE has an ass as flat as a 2x4. I miss the old faux-3d themes. That said, the current Breeze Dark is one of the best OOTB, default themes I've ever used.

          Yeah, pick the wrong distro and you'll have a really good time until you learn about free vs non-free and repositories that are hosted in other places with that have builds of software with slightly different compiler flags...the builds you actually want to use sitting next to the drivers that'll make your hardware work.

          Not that Windows and macOS don't have their share of problems, but at least some dude's feelings on a license isn't one of them.
          I actually used to use it too, but now im on gnome due it it having better gpu hot unplug, I don't like gnome's oob either, in fact I don't like any. but hey, I still rather deal with it then deal with windows lol

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          • #55
            Really see no reason for not making a LSW; except greed.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post

              You seem to be an astute Windows User ..arent you?

              Linux created by Linus Torvalds

              Just for your information nobody, nothing pops out of nowhere. Even Einstein based his RT on Newtons Physics. So without Newton there wouldn't be RT.
              None of your highly praised MS Devs could move their butts into office without Cars partially made of steel produced in china and is propulsed by refined saudi oil.
              Everything is connected. The idea was donated by an Engineer almost 150 years ago. How much is this related to the current cars? Do you still have to crank the bar in front of your vehicle? No because some engineer maybe in UK maybe Japan maybe Germany who cares invented the alternator to start your car ....so we could continoue this endlessly.
              I think you are forgetting the point which is that Linux would be nowhere without its contributions regardless of where they came from.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

                I think you are forgetting the point which is that Linux would be nowhere without its contributions regardless of where they came from.
                It would also be nowhere if Linus accepted every half baked badly written buggy meme pull request that goes against the spirit of the GPL.

                So far the best rationale for wsl in the linux kernel seems to be people using photoshop on windows might want their VM to run better.

                It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. They gonna get through all this rewrite just to get rejected again because there is no use case that fits with the spirit of GPL.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by mSparks View Post

                  It would also be nowhere if Linus accepted every half baked badly written buggy meme pull request that goes against the spirit of the GPL.

                  So far the best rationale for wsl in the linux kernel seems to be people using photoshop on windows might want their VM to run better.

                  It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. They gonna get through all this rewrite just to get rejected again because there is no use case that fits with the spirit of GPL.
                  What's the spirit of the GPL? Why do you think it matters in this context?

                  Originally posted by theriddick View Post
                  Really see no reason for not making a LSW; except greed.
                  Who should do it? Besides, WINE pretty much attempts to be that, no?

                  Originally posted by mSparks View Post

                  Those cases don't get (meaningful/non bug fix) Kernel changes either. They get what they are given and its their responsibility to work with that.
                  Also, no, windows is just another piece of software, not hardware. Not a difficult distinction.
                  Just like graphics cards don't get new generations that lead to meaningful non bug fix kernel changes, right?
                  What makes that distinction meaningful?

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by sinepgib View Post

                    What's the spirit of the GPL? Why do you think it matters in this context?
                    Mostly afaict
                    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyleft

                    Matters because windows and microsoft is the antipathy of that spirit. Neither MS nor anyone else get to profit from copyleft software while stripping those rights from users. So if WSL is only useful in a non copyleft environment it has zero chance of getting accepted for use in exclusively copyleft environments. Which is at the heart of the linux kernel.

                    They only care now because they realised (too late imho) that closed source simply cannot compete long term.
                    Last edited by mSparks; 14 January 2022, 04:11 PM.

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                    • #60
                      Don't know about the spirit of GPL, but the spirit of Free Software has the fundamental 0th freedom: The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose. And this is exactly how I want to use Linux - in WSL2, with WSLg.

                      Before WSL, I used Linux in VirtualBox VM and X11 forwarding with VcXsrv to get the desktop experience I wanted. Couple of years ago I used to run Linux natively on my simple Intel-based PC, and the experience was great, but once you want a fancy laptop, things can quickly go south.

                      So no, Microsoft is not driving me away from Linux on the desktop. It gives me a choice to run Linux on my desktop the way it works best for me.

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