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X.Org Could Use More Help Improving & Addressing Its Security

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  • #31
    And in the meantime so many medical equipment that is used to help protect people lives are running Windows XP (or even 98), and is so insecure that nearly every one that is network connected is on a botnet.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by pal666 View Post
      when will you stop posting bullshit? wayland supports remote desktop just fine
      No it doesnt
      Originally posted by pal666 View Post
      tbh it's a stupid idea for nvidiot to share his views
      I have multiple machines, some with nvidia and some without so not sure what you are implying here.

      Originally posted by sinepgib View Post

      First time I hear about a simple install script.
      https://news.itsfoss.com/arch-linux-easy-install/

      There is now an archinstall script on arch iso's which does a lot of heavy lifting in the installation process.

      Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
      Most distros shipping gnome are defaulting to wayland I believe. that includes manjaro gnome last I checked. and most major distros are supporting the migration. don't get me wrong, wayland has issues. pipewire screen record massacres my refresh rate for some reason. but most distros ARE supporting wayland by default if gnome is one of the default options, which in most cases, is most distros. obviously not all distros shipping gnome are shipping wayland by default. but most are.
      I am using Manjaro, it most definitely is not shipping wayland by default. You need to manually toggle it in https://forum.manjaro.org/t/should-g...ssion/23806/52

      Also manjaro/arch has a sizable KDE user base and wayland is still not usable there. As I said, no sane distro in their position would make Wayland default if the software still has a lot of known problems.
      Last edited by mdedetrich; 17 September 2021, 04:21 AM.

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      • #33
        grigi

        Properly (network) isolated Windows XP running in kiosk mode (i.e. presenting a single application in full screen mode with no access to anything beside it) is pretty much 100% secure as any other outdated insecure bug-riddled OS.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
          Afaik none of these are defaulting to Wayland.
          Fedora at least has been doing so for nearly 5 years now.... F25 released with Gnome/Wayland as the default in late 2016. Works pretty well... I've been using it for most of that time, and apart from the first few months, it's been pretty stable. As others have noted, there are a few functional gaps, but none of them affect my use cases, so I'm not unhappy with that.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Delgarde View Post

            Fedora at least has been doing so for nearly 5 years now.... F25 released with Gnome/Wayland as the default in late 2016. Works pretty well... I've been using it for most of that time, and apart from the first few months, it's been pretty stable. As others have noted, there are a few functional gaps, but none of them affect my use cases, so I'm not unhappy with that.
            Sure and I already said before that Fedora has defaulted to Wayland but evidently Fedora only really cares about Gnome and systems that don't use NVidia for compositing. Where I currently work they used to "strongly recommend" for people to use Fedora but the stance has changed due to Wayland (so many people were getting Wayland specific issues, being able to screen share reliably was a common one).

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            • #36
              Originally posted by karolherbst View Post
              X will probably never see HDR support (nor wokring mixed DPI scaling, which is already around for a long time) and without that it's just dead if you care about "users" in a general sense.
              x11 has always supported HDR. Not only are colors up to 10-bits, they are even up to 16-bits (per component). It works on both amd and nvidia.
              There is a way you can get mixed DPI scaling working with it looking nice, while with wayland there is currently no wayland compositor that properly works with x11 scaling. X11 windows under xwayland are scaling as a texture, making it blurry. There are forks of xwayland and wlroots to fix this but who knows if these changes will ever be accepted into wlroots and xwayland.

              As birdie mentioned, wayland people need to address these issues: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayla...d/-/issues/233
              and even if they do, wayland ends up being as "unsafe" as x11 because you can then keylog and things like that. You could implement a system where you have global hotkeys and things like that without risking security, but wayland is badly designed from the start so I doubt that would happen. X servers could be easily modified to do that without affecting any programs.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                No it doesnt
                Yes it does (support remote desktop). I'm using VNC, RDP and screen sharing / recording with Pipewire. Why comment on a topic you obviously know nothing about?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by arokh View Post

                  Yes it does (support remote desktop). I'm using VNC, RDP and screen sharing / recording with Pipewire. Why comment on a topic you obviously know nothing about?
                  Because I had to set up VNC for servers that I am managing and at the time it didn't completely work, I had issues with certain NVidia/AMD cards and also with KDE (see https://phabricator.kde.org/D6096).

                  Thats the thing with X11/xorg, remoting just worked regardless of what DE was being run. With Wayland everything had to be reimplemented from scratch and/or all of the software had to integrate with pipewire.

                  People also need to realize that not everyone is running Gnome, so when someone says that Wayland doesn't work stop implying they are using a setup exactly like yours

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Monsterovich View Post

                    Come on. No one asked for Wayland. The majority of distros stick to X because Xorg works even though Wayland exists for 13 years. Xorg may be dirty, but it works fine. Wayland looks like a launcher for GNOME, invented by GNOME fanatics who always go against Unix philosophy with their stupid decisions: CSD and such stuff. Perhaps, Xorg will be replaced eventually, but not by Wayland.
                    I would like to recommend to shoot everybody that suggests or implies that "X follows the unix philosophy" on the moon.
                    Xorg includes a print server for heavens sake and it includes libraries to draw your mom .. over the network.
                    Also, if anything, CSD is "unix" because now all drawing is done by the GUI frame work.

                    and, no, the most important distros already switched default.
                    Last edited by mppix; 17 September 2021, 08:26 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                      NVidia isn't the only reason that people aren't converting onto Wayland, it still doesn't work on a lot of setups and/or is missing functionality (i.e. remote desktop).
                      What great remote desktop solutions do we have on Xorg?

                      Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                      Because I had to set up VNC for servers that I am managing and at the time it didn't completely work, I had issues with certain NVidia/AMD cards and also with KDE (see https://phabricator.kde.org/D6096).

                      Thats the thing with X11/xorg, remoting just worked regardless of what DE was being run. With Wayland everything had to be reimplemented from scratch and/or all of the software had to integrate with pipewire.
                      Not really. X11 forwarding is bad (like unusable bad) unless you are on a hard-wired network with low resolutions.
                      VNC is better but pretty much unusable with 1080p or 4K screen plus VNC multiuser login requires the admin to hack the system.

                      Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                      People also need to realize that not everyone is running Gnome, so when someone says that Wayland doesn't work stop implying they are using a setup exactly like yours
                      Most do actually. However, you don't seem to be able to differentiate between an issue with Wayland and issue with KDE.
                      Last edited by mppix; 17 September 2021, 08:40 AM.

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