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    sinepgib
    Senior Member

  • sinepgib
    replied
    Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

    *waits for “apps can't be ported to Wayland because it's just a protocol” responses*
    And those would be wrong, because you port it to use the protocol. Plus, client libraries exist (although the official one is still short from supporting all desirable features), and you'd port it to it if unwilling to use a toolkit.

    Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
    The world doesn't revolve around you. There are quite a few persons who *do* care about X11 stuff.
    Of course there are, but they can and most likely will keep using X11 instead. Wayland is not meant to be a replacement for every feature in X11 and XWayland is unlikely to extend to reach that because it would defeat some of the purposes of using Wayland in the first place. For example, tomas mentioned the emulated input extension. You want to avoid that on Wayland, so I doubt XWayland will enable that. If you need it, you'll stick to X11. It isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

    Leave a comment:

  • Vistaus
    Senior Member

  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by uid313 View Post

    No, XWayland exists only for backwards compatibility with applications that do not support Wayland.
    So I only care about X and XWayland in order to use legacy applications and games, I am not particularly interested in any specific features of X11.
    The world doesn't revolve around you. There are quite a few persons who *do* care about X11 stuff.

    Leave a comment:

  • Vistaus
    Senior Member

  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by tomas View Post

    Such as?
    I would say Xwayland mainly exists as a temporary compatibility solution for applications that has yet been ported to Wayland, mainly proprietary applications using toolkits that is still tied to X. Or what specific features of X applications are you thinking of? The ability for any X application to read the contents and input of any other X application? Perhaps you were thinking of xeyes? I'm afraid it does not work under Xwayland.
    *waits for “apps can't be ported to Wayland because it's just a protocol” responses*

    Leave a comment:

  • tomas
    Senior Member

  • tomas
    replied
    BTW, one feature of X that has been missing in wayland is apparently something called "emulated inputs" which I personally never missed, but it is now getting fixed in wayland the proper way by the means of libei:

    http://who-t.blogspot.com/2020/08/li...input.html?m=1

    The following paragraphs from the blog post really says it all:

    "Having a separate extension worked around the issue of detectability and thus any client could spoof input events. Security concerns were addressed with "well, just ifdef out that extension then" which worked great until other applications started using it for input emulation..."

    and

    "Now it's 2020 and we still have an X server that basically allows access to anything and any client to spoof input. This level of security is industry standard for IoT devices but we are trying to be more restrictive than that on your desktop, lest the stuff you type actually matters... "

    and finally this gem

    ​​​​​​"The whole "any to any" is a big thing in X and just shows that in the olden days you could apparently trust, well, apparently anyone"

    😊

    What is great is that this new library for emulating inputs is not even tied to wayland so it can in fact even be used under classic X and thus improve security there as well.
    ​​​​
    tomas
    Senior Member
    Last edited by tomas; 07 September 2021, 11:17 AM.

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  • mppix
    Senior Member

  • mppix
    replied
    Originally posted by tomas View Post

    Yes, you are correct. I agree.
    Xwayland will be available for a long time. However, it will eventually become optional and just a dependency for such packages that most users won't need.

    Leave a comment:

  • tomas
    Senior Member

  • tomas
    replied
    Originally posted by sinepgib View Post

    I agree, but I don't think it's temporary. Think about applications, both free and proprietary, that have been long abandoned and won't ever get ported.
    Yes, you are correct. I agree.

    Leave a comment:

  • sinepgib
    Senior Member

  • sinepgib
    replied
    Originally posted by tomas View Post

    Such as?
    I would say Xwayland mainly exists as a temporary compatibility solution for applications that has yet been ported to Wayland, mainly proprietary applications using toolkits that is still tied to X. Or what specific features of X applications are you thinking of? The ability for any X application to read the contents and input of any other X application? Perhaps you were thinking of xeyes? I'm afraid it does not work under Xwayland.
    I agree, but I don't think it's temporary. Think about applications, both free and proprietary, that have been long abandoned and won't ever get ported.

    Leave a comment:

  • uid313
    Senior Member

  • uid313
    replied
    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

    That's a bit odd. XWayland only exists because there are useful things in X11 that Wayland lacks. If you remove all that, why even bother having XWayland?
    No, XWayland exists only for backwards compatibility with applications that do not support Wayland.
    So I only care about X and XWayland in order to use legacy applications and games, I am not particularly interested in any specific features of X11.

    Leave a comment:

  • tomas
    Senior Member

  • tomas
    replied
    Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

    That's a bit odd. XWayland only exists because there are useful things in X11 that Wayland lack
    Such as?
    I would say Xwayland mainly exists as a temporary compatibility solution for applications that has yet been ported to Wayland, mainly proprietary applications using toolkits that is still tied to X. Or what specific features of X applications are you thinking of? The ability for any X application to read the contents and input of any other X application? Perhaps you were thinking of xeyes? I'm afraid it does not work under Xwayland.

    Leave a comment:

  • kpedersen
    Senior Member

  • kpedersen
    replied
    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
    Maybe more stuff can be removed, so that it can only have the stuff that's strictly necessary for XWayland.
    That's a bit odd. XWayland only exists because there are useful things in X11 that Wayland lacks. If you remove all that, why even bother having XWayland?

    Leave a comment:

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