Raspberry Pi Display Driver Patches Updated For 4K@60Hz Support

[arQon]

Truth be told, most SBCs competing with pi4 have better graphical performance than pi4. At least they can play 1080p videos over youtube

No question the Pi's video stack needs a LOT of work still, but the main reason YouTube sucks is because Google chose to burn user CPU on a custom codec rather than pay more for bandwidth.
It's understandable, sure, but if they're going to insist on using AV1 when almost nothing has HW decode for it, you blaming someone else for that decision - especially HW that was produced *before AV1 even existed* - is pretty badly misdirected.

Maybe we'll see a custom VK decoder for AV1 one of these days^W years for the Pi, but that's about the only way it's going to happen. (And it's incredibly unlikely, and browsers wouldn't work with it anyway. So, yeah...)

[arQon]

I bought this RPi 4 during containment for my daughter, but it doesn't have enough computing power, it's not pleasant to use ;-(

Just to be somewhat pedantic: I find it very unlikely that your daughter is doing anything that the Pi doesn't actually have enough *compute* for.
The *display stack* sucks, which can easily lead to it "feeling slow", but that's not the same thing, and given the technical bent of most Phoronix readers that's potentially an important distinction.
(And potentially valuable for you as well, since you can't magically make the CPU 10x faster, but the Pi's video performance could literally improve 10x "overnight" with the right software updates).

[leo_sk]

Yes, but not open-source. PanVK still has a ways to go.

I would have preferred that effort and money would rather have been poured into mali gpus than a fringe broadcom one which will hardly find any use beyond pi4, and is seriously incapable of most tasks even with most reasonable optimisations

[leo_sk]

No question the Pi's video stack needs a LOT of work still, but the main reason YouTube sucks is because Google chose to burn user CPU on a custom codec rather than pay more for bandwidth.

Oh no. I am not talking about av1 or anything. Even 1080p mp4 videos at 60fps are not playable currently. You can of course stream them via vlc or mpv, but even then its not smooth unless reduced to 720p 60

[Rccero]

Oh no. I am not talking about av1 or anything. Even 1080p mp4 videos at 60fps are not playable currently. You can of course stream them via vlc or mpv, but even then its not smooth unless reduced to 720p 60

Are you talking of the HW decoding capabilities of Raspbian or of any distro? I don't remember having any trouble playing 1080p videos in LibreElec...

[Phil995511]

Just to be somewhat pedantic: I find it very unlikely that your daughter is doing anything that the Pi doesn't actually have enough *compute* for.
The *display stack* sucks, which can easily lead to it "feeling slow", but that's not the same thing, and given the technical bent of most Phoronix readers that's potentially an important distinction.
(And potentially valuable for you as well, since you can't magically make the CPU 10x faster, but the Pi's video performance could literally improve 10x "overnight" with the right software updates).

The ARM A72 CPU, which is not very powerful at base, was engraved in 28 nm by the RPi Foundation, while it is recommended to be engraved in 16 nm by ARM. All this to make ridiculous savings for the benefit of the RPi Foundation, which therefore provides an off-standard product (ARM) to consumers ;-( So this product will overheat even more at the slightest request for calculation.

This CPU is almost at 100% of use when you want to watch videos in 720p, I dare not imagine what it will give in 4K... A working GPU would have been welcome. And then the 4k @ 60Hz driver does not work, Vulcan does not work, there is no 64 Bits OS to optimally support 64 Bits CPUs (RPi 3, Rpi 3+, RPi 4, RPi 400) , so you can't take advantage of the very relative power of the on-board hardware.

And the OS that is stored on an SD card sounds like a big joke, it's the least reliable storage solution you can imagine in the medium / long term...

We can only do word processing, play small games that require very little system resources. Even educational software like Stellarium struggles to work on RPi.... No really it's a big paying joke (even if it's not very expensive) and which brings us almost nothing in terms of possibilities of use ;-( It's just money thrown by the window ;-(

[leo_sk]

Are you talking of the HW decoding capabilities of Raspbian or of any distro? I don't remember having any trouble playing 1080p videos in LibreElec...

Yes, i have not tried libelec, but i could not get good playback in any distro including raspbian and arch. Only thing that performed well was kodi

[AHOY]

I can't even read rpi news after they've added MS spyware by default. I'm glad I never bought one. What are some better brands and models?

[gukin]

And the OS that is stored on an SD card sounds like a big joke, it's the least reliable storage solution you can imagine in the medium / long term...

;-(

That's for sure brother, I dug out my C64 a few months ago and the hardware was still working and almost all my floppies were still fully readable. That said, I just love having my whole computer stuffed into the keyboard and you can really impress the chicks with a cute, little pink and white computer. (reference: the Raspberry PI 400)

I have my R400 hooked up to my 55" 4K monitor but it's "unrewarding" at 4k, I look forward to seeing what they'll be able to do.

[arQon]

(snip)

So: video, video, video, and video.

> no 64 Bits OS

Really? I guess mine's running on pixie dust then, since it's definitely NOT on 32-bit...

(Of course, the whole "64 bits!!1!" thing is about 95% placebo anyway, but who knows - maybe you'll be the 5%).

> And the OS that is stored on an SD card sounds like a big joke

Oh, I agree: definitely worth getting upset about. Unless of course it isn't true - which, like your last point, it isn't.

So, yeah. HTH. Details available via your favorite search engine.

edit> Seriously though: I get that you're just upset, and I do sympathize. But your anger is misplaced.

> 28 nm by the RPi Foundation, while it is recommended to be engraved in 16 nm by ARM. All this to make ridiculous savings for the benefit of the RPi Foundation, which therefore provides an off-standard product (ARM) to consumers ;-( So this product will overheat even more at the slightest request for calculation.

Yes, the Pi runs hotter than I'd like. (pimoroni - https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/a...31116595888211 - makes very functional (-15C) and very attractive heatsinks, though shipping basically doubles the price unless you're in the UK. Amazon etc have Chinese knockoffs if you prefer. Ignore tiny individual heatsinks).

RPF doesn't make the decisions on how the chips are fabbed: they don't own the foundries, and they don't do the chip design. The Pi4 now sells close to 1M units a month, but started around 500K/mo. You may think that's a lot, but in the semiconductor world it isn't, at all. So they have to buy what are essentially "off the shelf" parts. Those parts are designed for whatever node makes the most sense to (i.e. basically "is cheapest for") the company that actually designed them and is ordering them in the 10s of Ms or more for their *own* purposes. RPF is basically just a hitchhiker. Blame Broadcom.

16nm is *massively* more expensive than 28nm. You seem to be under the impression that it's just slightly more so. The Pi absolutely could not have been built on 16nm: all you'd have left is a bare PCB with the SoC on it, and that's it.

Your claim that RPF is somehow profiteering off the node is ridiculously wrong. If anything, RPF should be charging MORE for the Pi than they are, because even just an extra 50c on each unit would give them $6M/yr to hire developers with - and right now, the lack of software development at the kernel and display stack level is what's killing the Pi4's potential.

The choice of GPU - if you can call Broadcom's POS VideoCore that, which would be generous - is, again, not something RPF has *any* say in. I mean, it's right there in the name: Broadcom. RPF only gets to take or leave the SoC as a whole. IDK what the other options were (though, obviously, none of them would have Broadcom's trash for a GPU), but given the fact that VC6 can do 4K HEVC (which it genuinely can, just not in any "standard" Linux way that's acceptable to a web browser), at the time the Broadcom SoC clearly came out ahead in terms of cost vs performance and capabilities. If you think you're capable of finding something better at the same cost or lower, by all means, impress us all with it and let RPF know.

Most of the problem is that Broadcom barely contributes to Linux at all (their wifi / network chips, for example, were a nightmare for about a decade), let alone Mesa. It's a shitty company on that front, always has been, and always will be. That puts all the burden on RPF to produce all the drivers needed, all the userspace needed, fight to get it merged upstream, and so on - and contrary to your imaginary vision of Upton diving into a Scrooge McDuck-like swimming pool of gold coins, RPF operates on a shoestring budget and simply doesn't have enough people to do that in anything resembling a timely manner.

So, now you're better informed, at least. If your rant was simply the result of frustration, hopefully you understand the situation more than before and can either direct your venom where it belongs, if that's what makes you happy; or know where to contribute if you have the skills/time/money/etc.
If it was simply a case of mis-entitlement, where you thought $35 should get you something equivalent to an Epyc CPU with a 3060 thrown in, I can't help you with that.