X.Org Server 21.1 Will Aim To Release In The Coming Weeks

[tomas]

And lastly the fact that we're still having this heated discussion speaks volumes about Linux readiness for the desktop or a complete lack of it.

That the mere existence of a discussion would indicate an actual problem is a silly argument. Anyone can start a discussion about anything. That does not make it important.

Linux was devised in 1991, 30 years ago. Looks like 30 years haven't been enough to have a functional complete bug-free graphical subsystem.

I don't get it (or actually what makes you tick).
Why are you even here? Since you don't seem to appreciate Linux, what are you even doing on a forum dedicated to Linux? If you like Windows and think it is superior to Linux then that is fine. Nobody is forcing you to use Linux.

[Vistaus]

Now where are the Wayland fanboys who claimed X.org 1.20 is the very last version?

Exactly my thoughts when reading the title. I bet this is fake news to lead us non-Wayland fanboys on

[CommunityMember]

I wonder how Povilas will handle if this new release comes with some serious regression somewhere, since it seems like no big corp is backing it like before.

Regressions (only) on specific platforms, and (only) with less common hardware, and with inadequate testing resources, and with unresponsive maintainers, are part of the experience a release manager knowingly takes on. Whether any of those issues will occur for this release is currently unknown, but if they do occur, they tend to be quick burnout points for release managers, especially independent ones, as without the backing of a large corp that can choose to purchase one of (almost) everything for testing, and to provide backup support for the release manager, the potential impact on evaluating resolutions and completing a release cannot be overstated.

[oiaohm]

Ah, one last critical issue I've just remembered: Xorg and Windows can run an actual rock which supports VESA 2.0.

Wayland by comparison requires full-featured support from the kernel which means whenever you try your shiny Wayland distro on a new PC while not using the freshest newest kernel, you're completely screwed. You basically cannot use it. I wonder what inane arguments Wayland fans will come up with to address the elephant in the room.

And lastly the fact that we're still having this heated discussion speaks volumes about Linux readiness for the desktop or a complete lack of it. Such a basic core feature of any desktop OS is sorely ... not missing of course but utterly incomplete (yeah, Xorg has a fair share of critical issues as well).

Stop this point now.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.14-Initial-DRM-Misc

Wayland moves the graphical drivers into kernel space. X11.org was also moving to the direction that the modesetting driver would be everything.

Newer EFI systems are not required to include VESA 2.0 support. The reality here windows does not use a usermode driver for VESA 2.0 support instead has like SimpleDRM.

Yes the newest and freshest Linux kernel solves the VESA 2.0 problem. Yes 5.14 and newer the vesa 2.0 problems goes away with wayland. A new PC you buy today does not have VESA 2.0 support until after the vendor drivers/firmware are loaded by the OS when booting in EFI mode. Windows 11 PC you don't have to have EFI with legacy mode. What do you need on these new systems to display graphics before graphics firmware are loaded it in fact EFI GOP support.

So a new shiny Wayland distro will work on a new PC now and this will come more common as distributions move over to 5.14 and newer with simpledrm on. This could also see x.org X11 server drop their userspace VESA driver. Yes new systems you will be wanting simpledrm not Vesa. Because simpledrm can support both GOP and Vesa and switch between them. Yes the means to switch from GOP to Vesa when firmware is loaded into gpu is important on EFI solutions that have unstable EFI GOP.

The reality is going forwards Vesa 2.0 support is not going to be important. EFI GOP support is.

[tomas]

...
I've no idea.

Well, at least you got that right.

And considering Wayland is now 13 years old and NVIDIA still haven't released drivers with what you've mentioned, it's not like they've caved in yet

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...sa-Backend-Alt

Just stop digging a deeper hole for yourself. This is getting embarrassing for you.

Here is also the patch to Mesa from Nvidias James Jones:
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/..._requests/9902

You're imagining things but again it's a forum for people who are imagining that Linux is a desktop OS

As I asked you earlier: What are you even doing here? You seem to be a typical Windows fan boy based on your comments so what are you even doing on a forum dedicated to Linux news? Not that I care whether you run Linux or Windows or whatever on your desktop. I'm just curious.

BTW it's taken NVIDIA about a month to add full support for WDDM 3.0 found in Windows 11 just so you understood where Linux is on their priorities list.

Well, apparently Linux and Wayland is important enough for Nvidia for them to abandon their EGLStreams hack and adapt to GBM and DMA-BUF.
Not bad for a desktop OS with a 3% market share.

[oiaohm]

I don't wear a crown like you. As to why NVIDIA does that - I've no idea. Their business clients are rocking exclusively Xorg and CLI. And considering Wayland is now 13 years old and NVIDIA still haven't released drivers with what you've mentioned, it's not like they've caved in yet. You're imagining things but again it's a forum for people who are imagining that Linux is a desktop OS

BTW it's taken NVIDIA about a month to add full support for WDDM 3.0 found in Windows 11 just so you understood where Linux is on their priorities list.

birdie when Nvidia is less than 20 percent of the computer systems made per year graphics solution support them its not the most important thing in the world for the Linux kernel either. Yes it goes Intel, AMD then Nvidia if you break down by computers made per year and their graphical solution.

In the last 12 months Nvidia has release beta drivers with Wayland support. WDDM 3.0 took Nvidia a month but this has a lot in common with WDDM 2.0. Problem Nvidia got support GBM and KMS properly for Linux does not let them reuse as much of the code they did from windows with the prior do it our way solution. Eglstream was to avoid having to deal with Linux kernel memory management. Yes Linux kernel memory management is different to windows in the drivers space.

Linux memory management lots of it uses filehandles. Windows memory management is done by objects these are two very different beasts. Both Intel and AMD both admit supporting filehandles for memory management that Linux, BSD, OS X need makes the code not portable to windows.

Birdie remember Nvidia is 80 percent of dgpu market but less than 20 percent of the graphical solution on x86 systems. Do not underestimate how many people are using CPU integrated graphics. Reality I use a raspberry pi 4 of course that not running Nvidia graphics right. Nvidia market share is not that big.

Nvidia problem is they believe that the 80% dgpu market gave them enough force to say to the Linux development world you need to do what we want instead of admit to themselves they had less than 20% market presence so was not in a position to win any votes on how the graphics stack of Linux would work.

The reality of Nvidia Linux business clients don't in fact run Xorg or Wayland. The Linux business desktop sales when you look at them you don't nvidia in any major way instead you find Intel and AMD integrated GPU. Yes these business do want Wayland support. This is the problem Redhat, Suse... the major Linux distribution customers are not using Nvidia GPUs in desktop either. Remember the major enterprise Linux distributions went wayland default 3 years ago for desktop installs. Yes XWayland as your only X11 support in some cases because why their customers for desktop Linux machines had no Nvidia graphics.

Nvidia market share is a lot smaller than they think it is. Nvidia has a very good compute market share on Linux that is CLI driver. Nvidia has basically a non existent enterprise paid for linux desktop market share and these are the parties that pay for Linux desktop development.

Yes this is also part why KDE lead developer told Nvidia if Nvidia wanted KDE to support Nvidia on Wayland they would have to provide the developer themselves because none of the commercial users were going to pay. Yes the commercial users were going to pay for Wayland support for Intel and AMD in KDE.

Nvidia position is not as great as what you make out. Nvidia has wasted the last 13 years. They now need to catch up on 13 years of graphical interface work by Linux.

[Myownfriend]

But you are! We now have no publicly released drivers with these features yet...

The last two Nvidia drivers that I've been using support DMA-buf.

...not to mention missing support in Mesa...

That merge request was already merged and released.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mesa-21.2-Released

...and it's not known when we'll get all of this. I mean you're looking at the future and telling me that's what I should be paying attention to? OMG.

Yes, we don't know when exactly this is coming but there's two Nvidia employees that have out righted stated that support for GBM is coming in a future driver update. We didn't imagine that and we're not speculating. We're paying attention to the very open discussions that are happening.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/9902

What else will Linux have in the future? Maybe stable API/ABI for a change? Maybe stable properly tested kernel releases? Maybe distro releases which don't break spectacularly when you attempt to upgrade them to a new major release? Wow, so many great things.

So you do you just not know how to use Linux or something? Why do you have all these issues that other people don't?

[birdie]

Well, at least you got that right.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-GBM-Mesa-Backend-Alt

Just stop digging a deeper hole for yourself. This is getting embarrassing for you.

Here is also the patch to Mesa from Nvidias James Jones:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/9902

As I asked you earlier: What are you even doing here? You seem to be a typical Windows fan boy based on your comments so what are you even doing on a forum dedicated to Linux news? Not that I care whether you run Linux or Windows or whatever on your desktop. I'm just curious.



Well, apparently Linux and Wayland is important enough for Nvidia for them to abandon their EGLStreams hack and adapt to GBM and DMA-BUF.
Not bad for a desktop OS with 3% market share.

I've blacklisted you 'cause I'm tired of your aggression, inability to argue and Trump-like statements (stating the desired instead of facts). As to what I've done for Linux, look no further - it's not about the article, scroll it down and find the list of contributions. To cool you down a bit you may need to know that I've been using Linux since the late 90s, probably 10 times more than you have. Cheers!

[birdie]

The last two Nvidia drivers that I've been using support DMA-buf.


That merge request was already merged and released.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mesa-21.2-Released

Yes, we don't know when exactly this is coming but there's two Nvidia employees that have out righted stated that support for GBM is coming in a future driver update. We didn't imagine that and we're not speculating. We're paying attention to the very open discussions that are happening.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/9902

So you do you just not know how to use Linux or something? Why do you have all these issues that other people don't?

I absolutely don't know how to use Linux, correct. Been not using it for over 20 years now. Just chilling around and spreading falsehoods. All correct. Again, you are number two or three in this thread who claims something will be supported in the future while we are talking about the status quo? What a weird discussion we have here. I certainly don't have a time machine but some people here not only have it, they've just come back from the future and telling me how beautiful it is.

[doomie]

birdie *cringe* i've seen you troll on here for years now, but you really kinda trolled yourself this time huh?