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X.Org Server 21.1 Will Aim To Release In The Coming Weeks

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  • X.Org Server 21.1 Will Aim To Release In The Coming Weeks

    Phoronix: X.Org Server 21.1 Will Aim To Release In The Coming Weeks

    It looks like X.Org Server 21.1 (long in development the past few years as X.Org Server 1.21) will see a stable release in the coming weeks...

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...er-21.1-Coming

  • #2
    In before somebody comments "X.Org is dead, go Wayland".

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    • #3
      Great news for the BSD community!

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      • #4
        Now where are the Wayland fanboys who claimed X.org 1.20 is the very last version?

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        • #5
          Right, screw this. I've had enough.

          At this rate desktop Linux will never ever fully transition to Wayland and developers will simply continue to flog the zombie that is Xorg and the Xserver. Things like VR, HUDs and even newer exciting stuff will simply get grafted onto Xorg like the shitbag that it is. Let's continue to deal with having a kernel driver, a drm driver and an Xorg ddx driver just to draw the desktop instead of having everything done by the drm driver. And while we're at it, let's also continue to enjoy the clusterfuck of device-specific input drivers compared to have everything punted off to a general Wayland protocol extension.

          Everyone might as well simply roll back all the efforts to create Wayland compositors and software that actually function properly on Wayland because the Xorg maintainers don't even have the will to stick with their plans of permanently abandoning the Xserver once and for all even after 13 years of Wayland development. If things screen sharing and remote desktop access don't work properly on Wayland, don't bother with wasting effort to address them because "switch back to an Xorg session" is going to be the easy way out.
          Last edited by Sonadow; 10 August 2021, 04:56 AM.

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          • #6
            Please note this is only a plan. Not implemented yet. Also do note that XWayland code will be outside the main branch. We are now in the location that yes X.org 1.20 was the very last time X11 protocol had a single reference we now have two references. XWayland and X.org X11 server can now split and become incompatible with each other.

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            • #7
              There's still business interest in X.org X11 so it wont die. It's a long transition but I'm sure it'll happen eventually. I'm pretty sure Steam Deck will release with X11 but transition in a further update when they can ensure things work.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                Right, screw this. I've had enough.

                At this rate desktop Linux will never ever fully transition to Wayland and developers will simply continue to flog the zombie that is Xorg and the Xserver. Things like VR, HUDs and even newer exciting stuff will simply get grafted onto Xorg like the shitbag that it is. Let's continue to deal with having a kernel driver, a drm driver and an Xorg ddx driver just to draw the desktop instead of having everything done by the drm driver. And while we're at it, let's also continue to enjoy the clusterfuck of device-specific input drivers compared to have everything punted off to a general Wayland protocol extension.

                Everyone might as well simply roll back all the efforts to create Wayland compositors and software that actually function properly on Wayland because the Xorg maintainers don't even have the will to stick with their plans of permanently abandoning the Xserver once and for all even after 13 years of Wayland development. If things screen sharing and remote desktop access don't work properly on Wayland, don't bother with wasting effort to address them because "switch back to an Xorg session" is going to be the easy way out.
                You know, as a regular Linux user who started using Linux in 2014, there is one thing that annoys me the most about Linux on the desktop in general - incomplete software. Wayland, Snaps, etc.. Now, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Wayland itself and I do recognize the fact that it will eventually replace X. But I just hate being forced to use incomplete software. Let's face it, even though Wayland has progressed tremendously in the last year or two, it still hasn't reached feature parity to X. For example, gaming still sucks on it because of the forced VSync so there is still no true fullscreen unredirection like on X. Or the fact that the Wayland desktop can't recover from crashes and other rough edges. I know that Wayland is much better under the hood than X, but at lest to me, currently, whats point of it when X just works much better for me without any issues whatsoever? You say that switching back to X.org is the easy way out, but what is the alternative? To sit and suffer from the Wayland issues / incompleteness every time I use my computer? Sorry, but I don't want to. How am I supposed to adress these issues on Wayland if I'm not a developer? And it's not like this new release of X.org will slow down the progress of Wayland or something.
                Last edited by user1; 10 August 2021, 05:29 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by user1 View Post

                  You know, as a regular Linux user who started using Linux in 2014, there is one thing that annoys me the most about Linux on the desktop in general - incomplete software. Wayland, Snaps, etc.. Now, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Wayland itself and I do recognize the fact that it will eventually replace X. But I just hate being forced to use incomplete software.
                  The reason desktop Linux is full of technologies and features that are perpetually incomplete simply boils down to the fact that nobody has any desire to finish them as long as there is an easy fallsafe option.

                  Wayland doesn't work well enough? Fall back to Xorg sessions.
                  Flatpaks and Snaps don't work? Fall back to Appimage.

                  And heck, you got shit tons of people out there making no shame of boasting that they will always recommend the fallbacks to users, or refusing to use the new stuff in favour of the older stuff. As long as nobody pulls the rug out on these easy fallbacks, nothing ever gets completed because everybody will just insist on using those fallbacks and the teething problems on the their replacements will never get addressed due to lack of interest.

                  Who the hell will ever have any incentive to finish what was started under such situations?

                  If the developers think they cannot ever drop Xorg and the Xserver, then kill Wayland right now and continue to focus on developing and improving Wayland. Otherwise, sever all development of Xorg and Xserver, and focus strictly on the parts that matter like XWayland.

                  Make up your damn mind. Xorg or Wayland?
                  Last edited by Sonadow; 10 August 2021, 06:04 AM.

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                  • #10
                    This is great news. Thanks Povilas!

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