New X.Org Server Release While Maintaining Separate XWayland Being Discussed

[JS987]

Xorg is completely useless nowadays. Its eventual integration in Oses already provided by Wayland and Xwayland means to increase the complexity of graphical management so to cause issues. The hope is to get pure Wayland Oses soon.

Wayland is completely useless without e.g. xrandr.

[phred14]

My day job is in silicon design. One of the common CAD tools is Cadence Virtuoso, and it runs on X11, as it has for a few decades. Do a quick search for "cadence virtuoso linux wayland" and you'll find bug reports from people trying to do it, probably with xwayland. What you won't find, at least not yet, is direct support. Personal, gaming, and programming desktops move a heck of a lot faster than industrial desktops. You could also wind up pushing industrial tools like Cadence Virtuoso over to native Windows.

[DebianLinuxero]

Where have you got the news about Creative?

That's very old news.

This article summarizes most of the story :
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...xfi_gift&num=1

In summary, they released an incomplete driver that still today doesn't detect front panel jack insertion and that doesn't support any form of hardware acceleration sound processing like on Windows (hardware accelerated EAX, OpenAL and de/compress audio files with its codecs).

[avem]

The dead just refuse to die.

[ssokolow]

Wayland is completely useless without e.g. xrandr.

The whole reason I'm looking forward to Wayland being mature enough to meet my needs is that it prevents games from xrandr-ing their way to full-screen and confusing my WM into crunching all my windows and icons into a single monitor.

(Since I've been running the same GeForce GTX750 since the fglrx days, I use MetaModes to lock my desktop resolution. Some games require me to manually edit their config files or use Wine's virtual desktop support to get the damn things suitably windowed, but that's an acceptable tradeoff.)

[dpeterc]

Nope, X11 and specifically X11 via Xorg is such a mess of broken, hacky and against the standard work that something like that would not happen.
If you would create a fully clean X11 server, it would not run most of the software as those expect quirks of Xorg they did work around with hacky protocol usage.
And if you would create a X11 server with those quirks, it would just be Xorg again.

Could you elaborate? What precisely in X11 is hacky and against the standard? Xorg is against standard? Which standard?
Are you confusing extensions with core X protocol?
I have been programming with X11 many years, and I only needed the good old Oreilly books, where things are properly documented, and everything worked as expected in all the X11 implementations that I have ever used. My software does not depend on any quirks. Could you name any popular X11 software, which does?

On the other hand, it is Wayland implementations that constantly need bug fixes and extensions, just to get the feature parity to X11.

[arQon]

The whole reason I'm looking forward to Wayland being mature enough to meet my needs is that it prevents games from xrandr-ing their way to full-screen and confusing my WM into crunching all my windows and icons into a single monitor.

Oh man, I remember those days - that was annoying as hell. I still have code I wrote somewhere that saved off all the window positions etc before running a game and restored them afterwards.

A big part of the reason xrandr is critical though is VMs. The wayland devs' refusal to implement anything equivalent - and more tellingly, the attitude behind it - is a big part of why Wayland still isn't ready for primetime in a lot of cases, regardless of how enthusiastic the cheerleading squad is, and how much we all want Wayland to actually BE genuinely usable as a replacement for X. But it just isn't, and it never will be no matter how many times people uninvolved with the development try to puff themselves up by repeating the whole "insecure, old, hacky, mess, etc etc" line.

Wayland is much like WINE in that regard. Only doing 90% of the job is great for the users whose needs fall ENTIRELY within that 90%, but it just isn't good enough for anyone who EVER needs any part of the remaining 10%.

[Charlie68]

The dead just refuse to die.

This sentence says it all.
It is true the dead refuse to die and when this happens it is only because the dead are not dead or they are only dead in your head or expectations !!!

[dekernel]

Xorg is completely useless nowadays.

I'm not sure I can agree with you on that statement since I am now adding this comment via my LXDE desktop session that just seems to always work fine for me. Actually I have been using X for well over 5+ years on my workstation with only one instance where it went into the weeds so personally, I'm just fine and dandy with X.

[Anvil]

the way i see it, X,Org Server is Dead, no one really wants to keep it alive by making new releases, better off focusing on XWayland rather than a Dead Server