X.Org Server Lands X Input 2.4 Touchpad Gestures

[carewolf]

Pixel-precise scrolling, like you get with touchpads (as opposed to line-based scrolling like you get with classic mice with clicky scrollwheels).

It's funny: the software support is there (it works for touchpads, after all), the hardware support is there (like on my Logitech MX Master mouse), the kernel support is there... but it doesn't work.

libinput support is missing... https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libin...e_requests/139

[bple2137]

Wayland itself is still missing some rather valuable features. Not to mention XWayland doesn't work on some native games. (I ran into at least issues with Shadow of the Tomb Raider)

It should, it works for me for any game native or not, just like on X. Are you sure it doesn't try to launch it using native Wayland SDL backend? That on the other hand is completely broken at this point.

[Azrael5]

xorg is deprecated now and deprecated are those programs and games based on xorg. Now it is the era of Vulkan/Wayland.

[andre30correia]

xorg is deprecated now and deprecated are those programs and games based on xorg. Now it is the era of Vulkan/Wayland.

lol, in other hand windows old games continue to work, this way linux will continue to be a second classe desktop

[oiaohm]

lol, in other hand windows old games continue to work, this way linux will continue to be a second classe desktop

This is not in fact true. One of the reason why Valve is willing to work on wine is to be able to sell old windows games to someone that no longer work on Windows.

[bkor]

Do we really need X.Org Server 1.21 release after all? Couldn't distros just pick up the most recent git tree and package that?

That's much more of a hassle. With releases you'll notice that you're behind. E.g. by comparing the versions against other distributions. If you package git you won't easily notice fixes, you're making it more difficult for upstream, you'll get more bug reports to you instead of directing it to upstream, etc. Loads of hassle for the packager and possibly for upstream. Upstream should decide when they're good to release.

[kpedersen]

This is not in fact true. One of the reason why Valve is willing to work on wine is to be able to sell old windows games to someone that no longer work on Windows.

Perhaps *much* older. Windows typically has very good backwards compatibility. Possibly up to about 10-20 years. Linux and most other free operating systems can't quite compete here. Even things like FreeBSD's compat can't quite provide this because the entire userland is a moving target.

The main one that comes to mind is running an old 32-bit Debian userland in a chroot/jail to run NWN. Unfortunately the newer kernels have changed a little over the years that is causing a number of userland features to break. Especially given how complex the graphics stack is (LLVMpipe didn't exist back then but going forward is going to perhaps resolve this).

Is the Steam client itself not using X11?

[bple2137]

xorg is deprecated now and deprecated are those programs and games based on xorg. Now it is the era of Vulkan/Wayland.

Yeah right, that would make sense if we'd be close to have almost everything working on native Wayland and not depend on XWayland. And we're far from the state:

* Electron apps (it's pretty close, but not really)
* SDL2 applications (the port exists for years, though it has issues)
* Wine (there was rumor about experimental Wayland driver few months ago, but it's unclear whether it's going to be a thing or not. Chances are it's just too problematic to implement)
* Desktops (We only have GNOME, broken KDE and some WMs/compositors without full desktop experience)

And some more missing features that people rely on:

* NVIDIA support (pretty close, but only on GNOME and KDE)
* Remote control (VNC on GNOME sort of works, but how about TeamViewer)
* Apps registering global shortcuts working when window is not focused (?)
* ... i guess one would add even more to that list.

When at least most of above will be solved then yeah, people will just migrate away from X11, but that's a pretty distant future, isn't it? That's why Xorg won't be deprecated soon and some people want to implement some features on X still. The "deprecated" programs/games you mention are the recent ones. Actually even the newest games released just now need X11 to work.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I think those are all solvable issues, but the progress is so slow, I'd expect some points to remain on that list in like 2025.

[Azrael5]

Yeah right, that would make sense if we'd be close to have almost everything working on native Wayland and not depend on XWayland. And we're far from the state:

* Electron apps (it's pretty close, but not really)
* SDL2 applications (the port exists for years, though it has issues)
* Wine (there was rumor about experimental Wayland driver few months ago, but it's unclear whether it's going to be a thing or not. Chances are it's just too problematic to implement)
* Desktops (We only have GNOME, broken KDE and some WMs/compositors without full desktop experience)

And some more missing features that people rely on:

* NVIDIA support (pretty close, but only on GNOME and KDE)
* Remote control (VNC on GNOME sort of works, but how about TeamViewer)
* Apps registering global shortcuts working when window is not focused (?)
* ... i guess one would add even more to that list.

When at least most of above will be solved then yeah, people will just migrate away from X11, but that's a pretty distant future, isn't it? That's why Xorg won't be deprecated soon and some people want to implement some features on X still. The "deprecated" programs/games you mention are the recent ones. Actually even the newest games released just now need X11 to work.

I understand what you mean. This means that those programs are deprecated too, in fact, they don't work on wayland. Many developers are late. It's not wayland, it's a matter of inefficiency. If a program has to be rewritten in order to be wayland compliant it has to be rewritten. In my instance I would have avoided Xwayland because many developers are stuck in xorg projects delaying the transitional phase so increasing the complexity as well. The greater the complexity, the greater the inefficiency. Dual stack is a problem every where also in hardware.

[Charlie68]

xorg is deprecated now and deprecated are those programs and games based on xorg. Now it is the era of Vulkan/Wayland.

I am old of Linux, I have learned over the years that a software is really deprecated when nobody uses it anymore and nobody keeps it active, any attempt to deprecate a software from above has always been rejected. An example is compiz, it has been deprecated for years, then Ubuntu used it by default and keeping it active, some distributions had also deleted it from the repositories, only to see it come back.
Like it or not, Xorg is still the default of Ubuntu Lts so it will be maintained for years to come.
Wayland is definitely the best solution today, but not all applications and DE have full support yet, it will take time, so improvements in Xorg are welcome.
Gnu / linux is not Windows, where changes happen at the behest of Microsoft, Gnu / linux is a collection of small and large projects, each with their own times, Wayland requires a lot of work on composers and this takes time.