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Adam Jackson On The State Of The X.Org Server In 2020

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  • #61
    Originally posted by frank007
    Apart Adam Jackson, Who else is been working on the Xserver? It's his personal opinion, or is he the only man in the world hacking the Xserver now?
    did you read article? since he stepped down from release managing it 18 months ago nobody has stepped up. there's nobody else


    • #62
      Originally posted by JPFSanders View Post
      Similarly to the issue with the NVIDIA blob, (where most normies don't understand/know what is wrong with it from a Linux kernel perspective) most people doesn't understand what is the problem with Wayland.

      I will try to clarify it using language and books as a metaphor:

      English = Language
      1984 = A well known book written using the English language.

      Then X:

      X11 = Display Protocol (Language) (xfree86) = Display server implementing the X11 protocol. (Book)

      Then Wayland:
      your post has garbage value because you failed to list hundreds of x11 (compositing)window managers


      • #63
        Originally posted by JackLilhammers View Post
        Of course, because nobody on Linux wants to use CUDA.
        average linux user is smarter than average non-linux user and knows that vendor lock-in is no good


        • #64
          Originally posted by JMB9 View Post

          This is rediculous!

          ** Wayland <-> X - on topic **
          I am no programming expert (I might did a lot of programming as a scientist, though - mostly the former century) - so the X code base may be a problem ...
          But I am a Unix expert and no: no Wayland implementation (i.e. real code - not a protocol) is currently ready for professional use at all - not even on GNOME desktop.
          So putting the plug before the huge problems are solved is stupid. And yes, it is simple company tactics like MS or Apple.
          Implementing Wayland and using most of the fat and abandoned X stack is the future - really? Sorry, not at all.
          Similar to Apples macOS using Darwin: a microkernel with a fat BSD kernel in it with all rights - so no positive effect (many will doubt that there are any) from microkernel could be seen. And is this a problem - no. As no one knows the facts or is even interested in them.

          ** KDE (Qt) <-> GNOME GTK - off topic **
          To the point of this comment - XFCE is slower than KDE right now - on Intel Haswell as well as on AMD Ryzen 5 3600.
          This may be caused by the GTK toolkit - also used by GNOME which is much more fat.
          I have never seen an expert (Unix) to really select GNOME to be used as full DE - and even on RHEL people always shouted at it.
          For me KDE has become - to my surprise - the only current desktop to not forcing a workflow to USERS but trying to support the user with any workflow THEY feel comfortable with and is really performant and looks cute.
          This is what FREE software is for - enabling users without locking them in proprietary traps or force brain washing.
          With this original vision of the founder of GNU & FSF and the one responsible for GPL: the most liberating license from the USER perspective, KDE is more free SW than GNOME.
          It may hurt - but it is the truth.
          Currently KDE is really impressive - I still like some GNOME applications - don't get me wrong - but just by the more professional use cases I get more and more accustomed to KDE programs and may soon try the entire KDE SW stack - just to see how that feels. And it started with smaller programs like okular.

          So from my point of view GNOME is dead - bloat - `one direction' only ... which is of cause induced by my workflow (Windows users may feel more at home than me).
          BUT to say that KDE can be configured to suit very different workflows and GNOME can not (not possible at all, also not by tweaks - this makes GNOME similar to Windows, too) and this being a reality does speak aloud.
          It is ridiculous that CDE (used in the 1990ies and thereafter by many proprietary Unix vendors) was able to do things which are not possible with big, fat `current' DEs ...
          Well, I was just astonished to see in Fedora that vim was replaced - due to the `steep learning curve'. Yes, this is a typical feature of professional programs - the same for emacs, of cause. So currently the way is clear ... and it goes down. If the way to the masses is really connected with losing professional users (also clearly stated by Apple when abandoning their professional image SW) I am not content and think this is completely wrong. We should teach people to be able to cope with complex things - not brainwash people to be suited for stupid tools only capable for simple things.

          So no, KDE is absolutely sure not abandonware as it is progressing well ... and in a direction I am really wanting more changes to come - while other DEs and programs I hoped they stop changing things before it really got messed up totally (Mozilla - it's you) as they broke more and more professional features.
          I started to really look to KDE with the new computer - Kubuntu Bionic, Focal, Groovy and KDE neon (with Plasma 5.20.1 just now). I am really impressed.

          Currently I would still not bet on Wayland at all ... as I still don't see any of the promised advantages to materialize in ANY of its implementations in the next months ahead ...
          And if security is the concern I just smile and go away ... but maintainability may be a reason ... but to what extent is abandoned X to stay for the next RHEL releases ???
          And is this percentage really better off than the server - which at least seems to be quite stable ???

          So the user perspective is decisive - not a mere developer perspective ... and I think that there is really a lot to be learnt.
          And RedHat is still not a monopolist ... so it does not suit them well.
          I think IBM is really good at documentation - maybe RedHat can improve on that front and shed light on it.
          With the documentation one may get aware of things which have forgotten to be cleared ... common options no longer available ... transparency is important ...
          May have helped systemd, too.
          Forcing new technology over people which is no longer suitable for their professional work{flow} is not wise.
          I can't agree with you more.


          • #65
            Originally posted by M1kkko View Post
            Does anyone know: Does wayland still have proper hardware cursor support? You know, computer mouse cursor? Drawn independently from the desktop? On top of the framebuffer? By hardware?

            Last time I checked (a little over a year ago) the mouse movement was still noticeably sluggish compared to X.
            what makes you think it is related to hardwareness of cursor? you can draw hardware cursors with as much lag as you like. if you really want answer to your question, you need to reduce its scope to some implementation


            • #66
              Originally posted by ferry View Post
              Everybody here thinking wayland is so great, why don't you just go ahead and use it. Why bother people getting actual work done using X?
              everybody already uses wayland. if you like x, why don't you release manage it?
              Originally posted by ferry View Post
              in kde
              common pattern among people having issues on linux


              • #67
                Originally posted by JMB9 View Post
                So putting the plug before the huge problems are solved is stupid
                so why are you posting shit on forums instead of maintaining xorg?
                Originally posted by JMB9 View Post
                I have never seen an expert (Unix) to really select GNOME to be used as full DE
                maybe you have never seen an expert and have only seen people who need windows clone?
                Originally posted by JMB9 View Post
                For me KDE has become - to my surprise - the only current desktop to not forcing a workflow to USERS but trying to support the user with any workflow THEY feel comfortable with and is really performant and looks cute.
                what workflow? is it an euphemism for "i can't read manual and use keybindings" ?
                Originally posted by JMB9 View Post
                And if security is the concern I just smile and go away ...
                i bet you also a security expert


                • #68
                  Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                  all of the compositors are duplicating graphics hardware/driver code where as ideally this should have been abstracted away (this is one of the few things that X11 did well
                  x11 did nothing of that. every window manager duplicated window management work and every x11 server duplicated x11 server work. you are confusing protocols with libraries


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Teggs View Post
                    How are end users going to receive these updates without a new release of Xserver?
                    from their distro vendor obviously


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by pal666
                      moron, there's no standard eglstreams. egl is standard, eglstreams is nvidia proprietary shit. they pushed ahead because it works for everyone(even for nvidia hardware with nouveau)
                      Thank you for proving my point.