Originally posted by calc
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Adam Jackson On The State Of The X.Org Server In 2020
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Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostThe fact that X11 eventually consolidated to a single strong implementation is the point here, so we are now repeating 30 years of bad history?
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostKMS/ DRM and GBM is the wrong abstraction to use because its Linux specific and low level, thats the whole problem and thats the duplication that is being talked about. None of the desktop compositors should even be talking to KMS/DRM and GBM.
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostI don't know if you realize but there are other OS's out there that aren't Linux that would want to use Wayland, i.e. BSD's (and maybe ReactOS if it ever picks up). This means that Gnome/KDE etc etc have to create platform specific implementations for those OS's if they decide to use Wayland.
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostOntop of this, even if we get your mentioned workarounds working for Wayland, there are compositors out there like Sway which won't work by default if you have the blob installed (regardless if you are even using NVidia for compositing/rendering, i.e. Sway will fail to run if you are only using the blob for CUDA).
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostSo as you stated before, this approach also doesn't work with out of kernel drivers that don't use KMS/DRM/GBM without significant hacks (none of which work right now) and this is regardless of your philosophical views on the subject.
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostThis kind of shit shouldn't even be handled by the compositor, you even admitted yourself its compositor specific. Right now Steam VR works with X11 fine
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostIts going to be bloody retarded using Steam VR with Wayland if your specific compositor happened to implement it incorrectly.
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostEvery compositor doing their own window management work is fine because it actually does differ, i.e. managing windows in a tiling WM is different to a traditional one like KWin, so by definition its not really duplication.
I am talking about the duplication of talking to GBM/DRM/KMS which really is duplication if you have a look at the relevant code in the different compositors.
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostUh, this is fuken so wrong. Usage of Wayland is ~7% from what I last checked
Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post, in reality almost no one uses wayland
Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post(and literally anyone with a newer NVidia GPU doesn't use Wayland because of the large amount of bugs there).
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostAlmost every major distro out there with significant market share (ergo Ubuntu but also OpenSuse/Manjaro) default to X11.
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostIf everyone used Wayland we wouldn't be even having this discussion.
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Originally posted by ferry View PostI highly doubt that a significant amount of people is using wayland already.
Originally posted by ferry View PostI didn't say I have issues with kde, I said you can switch to wayland easily with kde. Certain applications (not kde) have issues when using wayland.
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Originally posted by Old Grouch View Post'Premise A AND Premise B' is only true if both Premise A and Premise B are true.
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Originally posted by Old Grouch View Post
XWayland is not useless if it addresses use-cases that are not directly addressed by Wayland per se. You don't persuade people to try something new by telling them what they are used to using every day is useless, as they do not find it so, and you lose credibility.
While you may regard 'the project' to be purging the X Windows System from Linux, the way to do so is to show people how to do the things they say they need using Wayland instead of X; not by being unnecessarily combative. If you are appropriately humble, you might discover previously unrecognised use cases, and participate in developing needed functionality.
The Wayland ecosystem is not finished yet. It never will be. If you help to polish it, more people will be enthused to use it, and become positively engaged. Abusing people is rarely a good method of persuading them to your point of view.
It's also why the moment wayland gets out of the one use case Fedora cocoon, and gets exposed to all sorts of workflows/use cases, it leaks from all sides and drowns.
And it's a good thing, that's how it's going to improve and be ready in a couple of years for real users (and not for blinkered early adopters).
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