Originally posted by pracedru
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
It's Time To Admit It: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by user1 View PostBesides the fact that Wayland is still not feature complete, is there even decent amount of third party software that natively supports Wayland besides web browsers?
Comment
-
Originally posted by karolherbst View Post
and what about running untrusted applications, like games? Or sometimes you also get malware and stuff. If the user wants to run a screen recorder or something under wayland the compositor can just allow it, but ultimately the compositor is in control and could ask the user before granting that. In X no such mechanism exists.
I mean in general being security aware is great, but honestly this is something that should be done ground up in the desktop environment rather than hacked onto a display protocol, i.e. something like what Android does with permissions when you install an app.
The way that Wayland is going about it seems to be the worst of both worlds. At least with Android (for example), apps can do whatever they want, they just have to ask for it. So if you play a game and it asks for all of your contact info then something is def fishy, but its not for a calendar app.Last edited by mdedetrich; 29 October 2020, 01:34 PM.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostI mean in general being security aware is great, but honestly this is something that should be done ground up in the desktop environment rather than hacked onto a display protocol, i.e. something like what Android does with permissions when you install an app..
Originally posted by mdedetrich View PostThe way that Wayland is going about it seems to be the worst of both worlds. At least with Android (for example), apps can do whatever they want, they just have to ask for it. So if you play a game and it asks for all of your contact info then something is def fishy, but its not for a calendar app.
For flatpak and systemd user space around applications to provide permissions on graphical desktop X11 has be deprecated. The permission systems for the desktop environments of Linux are well under way with gnome and kde both implementing running applications as system user units. Wayland is just a piece of a lot bigger security puzzle.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
Why would games be more untrusted than any other type of application?
So yes, they are untrusted and it is known that some take it over the top. Also, they are for most linux users the only closed source and not distribution provided software they run on their machines. And your OS provider is generally more trustful than any other binaries you install on your system.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
I'm more than willing to jump the Wayland boat once either Gnome or KDE sorts out VRR for both Wayland/XWayland apps. I tried to use sway for a few days and it's fast and smooth but having no DE in a Wayland WM seemed even worse than something like i3 in terms of needed workarounds for my apps.
Comment
-
As long as Wayland devs live in their own bubble, X is not going to be abandonware UNFORTUNATELY.
It just escapes my mind why they force you to use VSync, at least make it opt-out...
I'd rather use X than have a stuttery mess with input lag, thank you very much.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Fanboy80 View PostAs long as Wayland devs live in their own bubble, X is not going to be abandonware UNFORTUNATELY.
It just escapes my mind why they force you to use VSync, at least make it opt-out...
I'd rather use X than have a stuttery mess with input lag, thank you very much.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by Fanboy80 View PostAs long as Wayland devs live in their own bubble, X is not going to be abandonware UNFORTUNATELY.
It just escapes my mind why they force you to use VSync, at least make it opt-out...
I'd rather use X than have a stuttery mess with input lag, thank you very much.
X11 took decades to develop to where it is today. Wayland developers fixing the issues is taking time.
Really the number of performance fixes that gnome has found in their main shell solution is insane.
There has been a lot of faults that before the wayland work we have been ignoring.
Comment
-
I really believe X11 shouldn't be abandoned. And, if it really had to be replaced by something better, I don't think Wayland is the solution. The Wayland website argues that there are obsolete features in X11 which belong to the 80s and nobody uses them anymore. Well, that's fine, but such features could be deprecated if needed without starting a new thing from scratch. Moreover, then they argue that remote rendering won't be supported in Wayland because it's "orthogonal" to it and it's "too complicated". This is when they show they don't have the slightest idea of what they are doing: do they want to remove old features, or just build their dreams toy with only the things they consider cool to have? They even recommend to use Xorg if you want remote rendering!! Are they UNIX developers? I mean, don't they need to run software in a HPC server? They really look like their idea of UNIX is using Gimp in Ubuntu (because if that's your idea of UNIX, then yes, Wayland is better than X11).
Comment
Comment