Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

It's Time To Admit It: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
    Look into a dictionary what "de facto standard" means. 🤦
    Oh I was just being pleasant .

    wlroots being the "de facto" standard means it is basically meaningless. What you are saying is Wayland has nothing. How do people think Wayland is going to work without any standards?

    For one, Wayland compositors are potentially rife with security vulnerabilities because they have a mixed bag of undefined implementations. Once Wayland becomes popular (i.e more than 7% usage), you are going to be hit by a whole heap of intrusions as they all have to update separately.

    I find it bizarre to sit on a forum and try to argue a point of people replacing a technology which has defined standards with one that has nothing. Remember, some people use this stuff professionally and cannot play about with a mess.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by karolherbst View Post
      sure it kind of works, but Xorg is a security nightmare and really not something users should still use.
      It is network aware, so this is complex. However simply removing the network aware capability is not an improvement. It is a mitigation that can only be useful for gamers and consumers.

      I am also not convinced that all the individual Wayland compositors do not have a high number of vulnerabilities. Unfortunately even after all these years Wayland is too young and too niche for people to have really tested it. At this point Xenocara with privilege separation is likely more secure than most Wayland compositors. In fact the only Wayland compositors I would trust is Gnome's attempt and Sway. Compare this to the thousands of X11 Window Managers that all receive the same (generally reasonable) security from Xorg.

      Honestly Xorg has been pretty bad to me over the years. Xsun was pretty gross! But I can also see when a tech is a viable replacement. For example people for years have been saying that UNIX will die, Java will kill C, etc. And yet these are still here and as strong as ever (stronger in fact!). Seeing Xorg die is actually not the worse thing in the world but until this can happen Wayland needs to get the heck out of the way so people can focus on a proper replacement.

      Originally posted by frank007
      It's a pity, I don't want, but it's nearly time for me to pass to Windows 10. Wayland is a game
      Except for funboys.
      Honestly, stick with Xorg and take no notice. You will soon realize that Wayland will be a passing fad with Gnome 3 and will disappear as an alternative like Mir. No-one that seriously has any sway in this industry will be able to deprecate it. The world won't function.
      Last edited by kpedersen; 25 October 2020, 03:18 PM.

      Comment


      • The problem is the UI as we know it have been developed in the first place for business needs. All the different form components menus, etc. So the demand have in the time backed the development of X, MacOS and than OSX application servers and even Win32.
        Since than business applications have moved into web and clouds and all they really need of client machine is to be able to run a browser, which is provide a runtime and UI-layer for applications.

        With this there are really no one who want to back a real replacement for older windowing systems. IMHO.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

          Wayland has been good though. It has shown us that things might one day change over time and even something as substantial as a display server may one day uproot. So portable code which is light on dependencies is good.
          Oh, yes, that's so very likely, particularly seeing how grateful the Linux community is whenever someone offers an alternative to something. I'm sure there are millions of people out there who are longing to spend their lives contributing something like that in order to be exposed to the hate, public shaming and death threats. Today's Linux users are such a happy crowd, you know.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Raka555 View Post
            What exactly is/was wrong with MIR ?
            Canonical's usage of CLA.

            People did not want to support the Mir protocol, so eventually it died out and Mir is just another Wayland compositor.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lumks View Post

              one of the smaller implementations MIR. They are all not 100% compatible with each other and so a project will face problems here and there.
              It's Mir, not MIR. It means "peace".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post

                First, its not true. The Shell is a process and Mutter is a library it links to but anything else is its own process and even splitting the shell is in work. Gnome Shell was designed 2010, when the many processes make one desktop concept was default but a bad idea due to the low thread, no hyper-threading and low IPS CPUs back then. Desktops with many threats easily ran into race conditions and stalls while one process desktops didn't. Today that of course is different now.

                And the stutter is more of a X thing as you as the compositor can not control the frame flow and by this dont know when to animate properly. KDE has issues with that too, bigger ones actually but Gnome Shell simply is more animated.
                There were also plans to make JavaScript multi-threaded back then.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by frank007
                  It's a pity, I don't want, but it's nearly time for me to pass to Windows 10. Wayland is a game, a lot of things do not work, and with it users have a castrated PC.
                  Except for funboys.
                  Prepare to play the slowdown, update and spying game!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by NateHubbard View Post
                    Honestly at this point, I almost wish they would. Or someone would. It seems like we're going to have two camps for all eternity: Those that say Wayland is fine and everything is going swell, and everyone else (the majority) still using X because obviously Wayland isn't fine.

                    Ok, I definitely don't want them doing that.
                    Why is software the only thing you enjoy that you're not willing to pay for? If the average Linux desktop user paid $10us per year for their desktop, then we would have a fantastic desktop. I will never understand why FOSS enthusiasts want to punish developers for licensing their software as FOSS. It's legitimizing the argument for proprietary software. Doesn't anyone understand that?

                    Comment


                    • X is a security nightmare.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X