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It's Time To Admit It: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware

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  • #61
    dreamer_ +1 X is dead because no one wants to pay for the maintenance.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by bobbie424242 View Post
      Wake me up when I can run Sway without telling me that "--my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia".
      It's free software. You can make it behave however you want.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by lumks View Post
        I think the problem for many projects is that wayland is not a thing but an implementation by every single project. So you have the HUGE GNOME implementation (huge because gnome is probably the most used thing on linux) that they cant ignore, but gnome doesnt support server side decorations, next the WLroots implementation is is widely used by many small projects, then KDE Kwin implementation that is used by KDE and maybe deepin and as one of the smaller implementations MIR. They are all not 100% compatible with each other and so a project will face problems here and there.
        This! Very much this. Wayland is a clusterfsck of a few incompatiple with each other implementations. A nightmare for app developers to support. Imagine having to support several incompatible X servers. That's the Wayland world currently.


        Originally posted by TheCycoONE View Post
        Color correction seems to be compositor specific: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Backlight#Wayland
        That right there is the main problem. Way too much is compositor specific.


        Originally posted by user1 View Post
        This. I'm really surprised nobody is talking about it. The only native wayland software I can think of are some DE's, and some web browsers. Pretty much every other third party software doesn't support Wayland. If you really want Wayland to gain adoption and start replacing X, third party software must start supporting it, otherwise I don't understand what's the point of it when you run almost everything apart from your DE through xwayland. These last few years I heard so many times about all the GNOME/KDE Wayland improvements, but when it comes to third party software, there is pretty much zero progress in Wayland adoption.
        There's lack of adoption because of the stuff I wrote/quoted above. What app developer would want to submit themselves to such a mess?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Paul Frederick View Post
          Heard it all a billion times before.
          And you can't get enough of it. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.

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          • #65
            Xorg sucks. But is more or less complete.

            Wayland seems quite promising, but heavily unfinished. Details and features depend too much on each implementation and there isn't a strict Vulkan-like certification procedure. I believe there must be a standardized and minimalist but feature complete code base shared against all. I see many projects that are interesting, they should be merged and expanded to support every feature needed (libweston, wlroots, disman, etc.).

            My opinion? We all (Linux/BSD desktop users) are doomed until Wayland mess gets solved in a very strict and strategical manner.

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            • #66
              Another thing I am starting to wonder about is WTF is The X.Org Foundation and what are they doing about it?
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.Org_Foundation


              Too much Traveling and endless vacation ...

              So it would seem that they have an agenda.
              They don't want to develop/support Xorg any more, so they neglect it.

              They are also behind wayland, which has gone nowhere in 11 years.

              Maybe they should start to rethink their purpose ...


              The X.Org Foundation does provide communication tools (in relation with freedesktop.org), an annual physical meeting and money to help developing the free graphics stack.
              • a physical annual meeting (X.Org Developer's Conference)
              • Travel sponsorship:
              • The X.Org Foundation participated as an organization of the Google Summer of Code (GSoC). This allows students to participate to X.Org-related projects over the summer .
              • Endless Vacation of Code (EVoC): EVoC is a GSoC-like project, funded by the X.Org Foundation. It allows students to participate to X.Org-related projects during their vacation, at any time of the year.
              • Communication: Google+ and Twitter Google+/YouTube: Store and/or link to talk videos, slides, blog articles or G+ posts related to projects under our umbrella (Martin Peres); Twitter: Mostly security issues, random updates (Alan Coopersmith).
              • There is an X.Org developer guide written by Alan Coopersmith, Matt Dew and the X.Org team; edited by Bart Massey at https://www.x.org/wiki/guide/


              Seems to me the X.Org foundation is the biggest stumbling block for linux on the desktop ...
              Last edited by Raka555; 25 October 2020, 11:06 AM.

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              • #67
                Awesomeness what distribution is this "the most successful GNU/Linux distributor" you blabbling about?

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                • #68
                  For me the issue is when you, as community, relies on corporate to have you software done. it ended up in humongous and abnormous stack that slowly becomes impossible to maintain because this is the corporate attitude toward coding in general, and especially in free software, where leaning and optimizing the code is left to some good volunteers.

                  You may switch to Wayland today but in ten year it will turn in fatland, with none a corporations involved willing to mantain the messed up they have been contribute to.

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                  • #69
                    As much as people hate on projects like systemD that standardize the way of doing things and the common low level infrastructure, that's pretty much the way you make life easier for app developers.

                    If Wayland doesn't have a standard implementation or intercompatible ones, it's a step backwards.

                    It's essentially a repeat of the installer situation where everyone makes their own and the smaller projects use Calamares, but worse because it affects the installed system itself.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by loganj View Post
                      Awesomeness what distribution is this "the most successful GNU/Linux distributor" you blabbling about?
                      Red Hat is obviously the most successful GNU/Linux distributor. US$3.4 billion in revenue don't lie. No other GNU/Linux distributor rakes in so much money.

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