Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

It's Time To Admit It: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by sa666666 View Post
    Choice is being taken away from Linux users, day by day.
    Linux was never about choice.

    It was always about letting people do whatever the fark they wanted to do with its source code by virtue of it being OSS.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

      I would be careful about making judgements based on a few developers. Using that same reasoning Gnome is also experimental (actually considering how many things Gnome has broken historically and how many times they have changed their vision of "desktop" I would consider gnome more experimental).

      The fact that a huge number of people are using KDE without problems means that its stable (which is the opposite of experimental).
      GNOME seems too experimental to me to, but in different ways.

      I knew lots KDE developers at Install Parties personally, and a neighbour of a friend was a KDE developer too.

      Comment


      • This discuss is getting looong.

        IMO Xorg will be commercially abandoned, but will continue as a community project.
        just because it has no commercial support does not mean it is abandonware, openssl has been running with just pure donation after all, not even commercially supported prior heartbleed.

        I mean, this sounds like many previous discussion in the past to me.
        like GNOME2(now MATE), Systemv, Flash, OSS sound server, etc....

        even thou its been abandoned by the big players, few still used it.
        so will it be an abandonware any time soon(in less than 5yrs)? nope, many people dislike change.
        will it be abandonware 10yrs+ time? yes, nothing last forever.

        Article title could be made better like "The X.Org Server Is Commercially Abandonware"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by milkboy View Post
          This discuss is getting looong.

          IMO Xorg will be commercially abandoned, but will continue as a community project.
          just because it has no commercial support does not mean it is abandonware, openssl has been running with just pure donation after all, not even commercially supported prior heartbleed.

          I mean, this sounds like many previous discussion in the past to me.
          like GNOME2(now MATE), Systemv, Flash, OSS sound server, etc....

          even thou its been abandoned by the big players, few still used it.
          so will it be an abandonware any time soon(in less than 5yrs)? nope, many people dislike change.
          will it be abandonware 10yrs+ time? yes, nothing last forever.

          Article title could be made better like "The X.Org Server Is Commercially Abandonware"
          Really we are seeing the death by 1000 cuts to X.org X11 server.

          https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...tting-VRR-June

          The reality is the Intel particular graphics driver for X.org X11 server is basically dead. You have intel graphics and you run X11 x.org you will be using the xf86-video-modesetting driver or the Xwayland driver. AMD is also with X11 server is heading in the direction of xf86-video-modesetting being the driver left with their own custom xf86 driver for x.org going away.

          xf86-video-modesetting driver is using libglvnd to get acceleration the same as Xwayland.

          When mode setting is done in kernel space. Acceleration is done in opengl libaries exactly what point is there to have vendors keep on providing their own drivers for X11.

          Wayland compositors also need the driver location simplify.

          Basically Nvidia is failing to get the memo the old X11 system is going away.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bearoso View Post
            I still use X over Wayland. Why?

            Is there a Wayland version of Chromium or Firefox that actually works? Nope. Chromium doesn't exist and Firefox is glitchy and officially pre-alpha quality.
            Is Xwayland usable for those? Nope. Xwayland has a timer granularity of 1ms. So instead of 60fps, both run at 58.8fps and stutter excessively.
            So there's no acceptable web browser.

            What about multimedia applications? Well, few games use Wayland, so we're back to Xwayland. That 58.8fps thing rears its ugly head again. Wine doesn't work well with Wayland , either.
            I do not know about Chromium but I have absolutely zero issues with Firefox on KDE Neon wayland (Plasma 5.20.1 on Ubuntu 20.04) on my old A10-4800M APU. I watch various TV shows through Firefox and have zero issues. Kodi also works perfectly fine with KDE Neon wayland - zero issues. I do not use the system to play games - just occasional work but mostly as a HTPC.

            Now my intel/nVidia other laptop, is used in a more personal business and professional way. Wayland was bad for me there - I did not even try Firefox.
            GOD is REAL unless declared as an INTEGER.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post


              Users dictate what happens, not developers. If users and developers are not aligned then users will abandon the platform or developers will be forced to accommodate.
              Very very true.

              An application can be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but if users do not want it because it is complicated, buggy, whatever, than it will not be used.
              GOD is REAL unless declared as an INTEGER.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sa666666 View Post

                Well if that's the case, I sincerely apologize. And sorry for the outburst there, but it seems that coming to these forums and dealing with certain people is just getting more and more toxic. And on top of all that, all that's going on with Linux and the direction it's heading (for better or worse). And finally of course, COVID. This year really sucks, and I think nerves are frayed and tempers flare. It's certainly the case for me. That being said, there are certain people here that provoke this behaviour, and no doubt delight in it.
                And you have made one of the best insights in this whole thread.
                GOD is REAL unless declared as an INTEGER.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                  every x11 window manager was its own implementation, nothing changed
                  Except that now what was previously the window manager's job has been massively expanded; things like color management were not previously their responsibility. Wayland offloads more responsibility on other software when compared to X. This isn't necessarily bad, but it is quite definitely a change; it means that if some window manager author were to attempt to rewrite their WM as a wayland compositor, they'd have to implement all the other things compositors have to handle which were previously manageable via things like xinput/xrandr/xcalib externally.
                  Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                  ssd are for idiots
                  I guess I'm an idiot for liking consistency outside of Gnome, then.
                  Originally posted by jo-erlend View Post
                  Why is software the only thing you enjoy that you're not willing to pay for? If the average Linux desktop user paid $10us per year for their desktop, then we would have a fantastic desktop. I will never understand why FOSS enthusiasts want to punish developers for licensing their software as FOSS. It's legitimizing the argument for proprietary software. Doesn't anyone understand that?
                  IDK; FVWM makes a fantastic desktop for me and I never paid.
                  Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                  The reality is the Intel particular graphics driver for X.org X11 server is basically dead. You have intel graphics and you run X11 x.org you will be using the xf86-video-modesetting driver or the Xwayland driver. AMD is also with X11 server is heading in the direction of xf86-video-modesetting being the driver left with their own custom xf86 driver for x.org going away.

                  xf86-video-modesetting driver is using libglvnd to get acceleration the same as Xwayland.
                  I still use xf86-video-intel because of many issues with modesetting (most silly of which is the fact that I can't avoid tearing with a rotated screen, but it's also silly that XDM draws extremely slowly under modesetting).
                  Last edited by wyatt8740; 27 October 2020, 09:59 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
                    This is another non-sense by IBM/Red Hat: the industry movie niche relies 99% on Linux (99% RHEL/Cantos) all the proprietaries software in use and proprietary drivers work only with X. Blender has just an experimental support for Wayland without considering that you get CUDA and OPENCL only with proprietary drivers (NVidia/AMD) and those do not support wayland. Is RED HAT dicthing this market? Or, are there secret agreements with other companies, like M$, to move this niche under WSL2/DirectX?

                    You can't trust corporations at the end of the day they are watching only their wallets.
                    You obviously do not have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Not only do NVidia drivers support Wayland via EGLStreams, it is Red Hat who wrote EGLStreams support in Gnome and XWayland. To claim the polar opposite just shows how incredibly ignorant you are. 🤦‍♂️

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                      https://github.com/Plagman/gamescope

                      You can spoof a virtual screen with a desired resolution and refresh rate as the only thing the game sees, and control/resize the output as needed. This can be useful in exotic display configurations like ultrawide or multi-monitor setups that involve rotation.

                      Fun right. Exclusive Full Screen access Valve does not want applications with. Legacy applications of valve will ask for exclusive full screen access at like 800x600 and if your monitor does not support it game is not running. This is not a ending issue you need abstraction exclusive full screen access is one of the features of X11 that does not in fact work. Instead what you need is what gamescope is where applications says what it wants and then gamescope sets up the gpu shaders to make it the right values for the connected monitors. Yes we need working abstraction when application asks for full screen.
                      Stop. What if I want to really set the resolution?
                      Say, if I bought a 4K monitor and want to use it with my laptop but at 1080p because it is not powerful enough? What about the refresh rate? What if my monitor does not support VRR/Adaptive-Sync/FreeSync?

                      Don't tell me I should not be able to set the resolution under Wayland, that's stupid!

                      And "Exclusive Full Screen access Valve does not want applications with"?! That means extra latency, by not letting the application output directly to the screen!

                      What kind of mentality is this and how do you get all the attention?!

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X