Originally posted by tildearrow
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"LIBOUTPUT" Proposed As New Library For Helping To Bring Up New Compositors & More
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Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
Yes, I suppose that is true
And whats great about this "innovative design" is that when Wayland has become deprecated, we can have a simple XNextbestthing implemented to replace XWayland and all of the great libX11 software can still function
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Originally posted by kpedersen View PostHonestly, everyone is just waiting for a libX11 API layer to be built on top of Wayland. Then people can stop faffing around and get back to some real work XD.
Download libW11 for free. libW11 is a Xlib compatible library for Cygwin that calls native Win32 functions rather than using an X server.
This is a old project that attempt to bring X11 API layer to windows without an X11 server. There are many more examples like this. Problem is the old X11 API is a disaster zone of quirks that you end up needing a full X11 server to emulate.
Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
liboutput maybe will be able to make a unified API/ABI that can be shared between X11 and Wayland so different library can be output neutral. This would replicate the kind of the same kill off that xlib did in early X11. Lot of people don't know first draft of X11 there is no xlib instead your application was meant to do the X11 protocol raw. Then there was 8 different options before xlib was chosen in the end.
Horribly we are still in the coding interface design debate stage with wayland.
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Originally posted by oiaohm View PostThis is not the first time X11 has attempt to change is abstraction layer either remember we have xlib and xcb. Xlib by design presumes everything is single threaded. xcb introduces multi thread support. If you dig deeper in to X11 you will find over time 15 competing ways just to generate X11 protocol to the server. So multi competing standards using the same output predate wayland we have just kept up the trend with the move to Wayland.
Originally posted by oiaohm View Postliboutput maybe will be able to make a unified API/ABI that can be shared between X11 and Wayland so different library can be output neutral. This would replicate the kind of the same kill off that xlib did in early X11. Lot of people don't know first draft of X11 there is no xlib instead your application was meant to do the X11 protocol raw. Then there was 8 different options before xlib was chosen in the end.
Oh wait never mind I realized who you are...
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I think this is different from wlroot and similar because this doesn't aim to provide things specific to (Wayland) compositors. Instead it limits itself to just general output things that could be used by applications too. I think libaries like wlroots could then build on this library.
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Originally posted by oiaohm View PostHorribly we are still in the coding interface design debate stage with wayland.
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(apologies for the potential double post / edit. Phoronix is being weird)
Originally posted by jacob View Post
There has never been anything great about X11.
Check out the tiny DWM source code and how it uses Xlib.h. Sure, single threaded and all that, but the code is elegant and maintainable. libx11 has provided the foundations for this and Wayland lacks this facility for the foreseeable future; leading to very heavy ad-hoc systems in the future. Of course if you only use Gnome or Sway, you wont care about that until they start to rot because they become a maintenance nightmare.
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostHorribly we are still in the coding interface design debate stage with wayland.
It by no mean needs to clone libx11 though. Something equally simple (or simpler) is also a nice idea.
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Originally posted by tildearrow View PostI know, but liboutput isn't supposed to replace Xlib or XCB...
It not design to replace all of Xlib or XCB but it will reduce the amount of xlib or xcb code required. It really stupid having DRM/DRI rendering handshake coding differently over and over again.
Originally posted by tildearrow View PostSee above.
Oh wait never mind I realized who you are...
We are lacking a decent abstraction that when you are coding a light program that works be the backend wayland, X11 or something else.
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Originally posted by miabrahams View PostOkay, that clears things up a bit. So then what is the relationship between or how do we compare mirAL, libweston, wlroots, and liboutput?
So I guess that you could rewrite mirAL, libweston or wlroots to be based on liboutput instead of DRM/KMS to have a common interface to the kernel.
Whether it's worth it though I don't know.
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