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X.Org's S3 Graphics Driver Sees First Release In Seven Years - Still Pre-1.0

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  • #11
    Originally posted by the_scx View Post
    they are almost unusable on the modern desktop.
    Screw the "modern desktop" (whatever that means. I can guarantee it doesn't exist on Linux). For digital preservation and just keeping stuff working, this driver work is very useful. Not all of us want to pointlessly fill up landfills and a lot of us know how to avoid doing so.

    I agree that the open-source model has flaws... but the closed-source model simply doesn't exist when it comes to hardware that can no longer be monetised. I would take "flawed" over "not possible" every time.
    Last edited by kpedersen; 07-26-2019, 05:54 PM.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by cybertraveler View Post

      This is really awesome if it works for you. The old Thinkpad hardware is awesome and if you have some good uses for it, that's just really nice to hear

      I have a Core2 Duo era Thinkpad with Intel HD3000 graphics. It's very old by modern standards but makes for a perfect general use system thanks to GNU/Linux. I've since bumped it up to 8 GB of RAM and an SSD and it feels more responsive than some brand new Windows 10 systems I've briefly played on.
      You can't have a Core 2 Duo with Intel HD 3000, as Intel HD 3000 is the integrated graphics on 2nd-gen (Sandy Bridge) Core i3/5/7 processors. Side note, most laptops with Sandy Bridge processors can be upgraded to Ivy Bridge (3rd-gen), with Intel HD 4000. This can give much better graphics performance, along with OpenGL 4 support. I did this in my Dell Inspiron 3520, going from its original Sandy Bridge Dual-core Celeron 1.7GHz to a Ivy Bridge Core i5 2.7GHz.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by QwertyChouskie View Post

        You can't have a Core 2 Duo with Intel HD 3000.
        The integrated GPUs at around then were possibly the Intel GMA 945, 950 or 965.

        Still very usable although the Mesa drivers dropped OpenGL 2.1 support on the 945. They suggested that it was mostly emulating the functionality anyway so they would rather... it simply not work. haha Clowns.

        This happened the same time that Blender forced a dependency on OpenGL 2.1. Almost like it was planned

        You can trick it with an environment flag like MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=2.1 and it turns out Blender doesn't really require any 2.1 functionality for general work.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
          Screw the "modern desktop" (whatever that means. I can guarantee it doesn't exist on Linux).
          This hardware is not suitable even for web browsing or watching movies (I'm not talking about H.264, H.265 or VP8, but MPEG4). It can't even handle native resolution of FullHD displays! You have to be a masochist to use this nowadays.

          Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
          For digital preservation and just keeping stuff working, this driver work is very useful.
          You don't need ancient hardware to run legacy software. Almost all hardware from that era are already dead. Remember, we are talking about cheap PCs from the second half of the 90s.

          Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
          Not all of us want to pointlessly fill up landfills and a lot of us know how to avoid doing so.
          Have you tried to use it on the desktop in the last 5 years? Do you know anyone who tried? We are basically talking about a vintage PC with AMD K5, S3 ViRGE, 32-64 MB RAM, 1-2 GB HDD, working under MS-DOS or Windows 95. Even if someone still has such a computer, he will not put Linux on it, because it doesn't make any sense.
          And of course, every mentally healthy person has already changed his main PC several times since the purchase of that crap.

          Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
          I agree that the open-source model has flaws... but the closed-source model simply doesn't exist when it comes to hardware that can no longer be monetised. I would take "flawed" over "not possible" every time.
          You are wrong. NVIDIA provide full support even for some Kepler-based GPUs (2012) and some support for older graphics chips:
          - NVIDIA 390: GeForce 400 series - GeForce 10 series
          - NVIDIA 340: GeForce 8 series - GeForce 800 series
          - NVIDIA 304: GeForce 6 series - GeForce 600 series
          - NVIDIA 173: GeForce 5 FX - GeForce 200 series
          - NVIDIA 96: GeForce 2 series - GeForce 4 series
          - NVIDIA 71: Riva 128 - GeForce 3 series
          https://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
          And you know what? It actually works!
          http://elrepo.org/tiki/kmod-nvidia-96xx
          On the other hand, Linux proprietary drivers for Chrome9 (Unified GFX Driver) or Chrome 400/500 series (S3G Chrome 4xx/5xx Linux Display Driver) for Ubuntu 10.04 LTS or Ubuntu 12.04 LTS are dead for a long time. There is no way to use them on e.g. Ubuntu 16.04 LTS or Ubuntu 18.04 LTS.

          What is more, you don't need constant updates to the driver if system provides a sane and stable ABI for drivers. And that's how it is in the Windows world.
          Please take a look at WDM (Windows Driver Model), WDF (Windows Driver Frameworks) and WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model). KMDF 1.1, 1.5 and 1.7 supports Windows Windows 2000-10. The same applies to UMDF 1.7 and 1.9. See also: Windows Driver Kit. Unfortunately, Linux has nothing like that.
          With display drivers, the situation is a little bit more complicated, but still, there is a chance that you will be able to use WDDM1 driver for Windows Vista on Windows 10.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

            The integrated GPUs at around then were possibly the Intel GMA 945, 950 or 965.

            Still very usable although the Mesa drivers dropped OpenGL 2.1 support on the 945. They suggested that it was mostly emulating the functionality anyway so they would rather... it simply not work. haha Clowns.

            This happened the same time that Blender forced a dependency on OpenGL 2.1. Almost like it was planned

            You can trick it with an environment flag like MESA_GL_VERSION_OVERRIDE=2.1 and it turns out Blender doesn't really require any 2.1 functionality for general work.
            Probably its a GMA 3000
            I own a core2duo era machine that has a GMA3100( OpenGL 2.1 in Linux..on Windows OpenGL1.4.. no Hardware Vertex Shader, Model 2.0 only emulated.. )
            The worst part of it ... -->>>> 17Watts
            Last edited by tuxd3v; 07-26-2019, 09:47 PM. Reason: complete..

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            • #16
              Originally posted by the_scx View Post

              Have you tried to use it on the desktop in the last 5 years? Do you know anyone who tried? We are basically talking about a vintage PC with AMD K5, S3 ViRGE, 32-64 MB RAM, 1-2 GB HDD, working under MS-DOS or Windows 95. Even if someone still has such a computer, he will not put Linux on it, because it doesn't make any sense.
              And of course, every mentally healthy person has already changed his main PC several times since the purchase of that crap.

              .
              Just for fun, I have linux working on a pIIx2, k6, and pentium classic systems. They have a geforce2, ati-rage, and an imagine no. 9 card respectively. The pII system actually boots to a graphical login in about 20 secs, using the latest systemd and 5.2.x kernel. The display uses the nouveau driver and supports a wimpy form of 3d accel. The XFCE desktop on that guy is actually fairly usable, though youtube videos are somewhat choppy The other guys boot to a 2d accel desktop, but not one you would want to use for more than simple control/monitoring of something like a router/mangler or light server type of thing. (or solitaire level of games) All hardware except some of the drives is ~20+ years old and still supported by opensource and has everything working you would expect from a unix-type multi-user system.

              Of course, I am arguably not mentally healthy

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              • #17
                Sweet... all the latest distros dumping 32bit support will make these ancient drivers even better right?

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by QwertyChouskie View Post

                  You can't have a Core 2 Duo with Intel HD 3000, as Intel HD 3000 is the integrated graphics on 2nd-gen (Sandy Bridge) Core i3/5/7 processors. Side note, most laptops with Sandy Bridge processors can be upgraded to Ivy Bridge (3rd-gen), with Intel HD 4000. This can give much better graphics performance, along with OpenGL 4 support. I did this in my Dell Inspiron 3520, going from its original Sandy Bridge Dual-core Celeron 1.7GHz to a Ivy Bridge Core i5 2.7GHz.
                  Hmm. I'll check again later. I was just going from memory.

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                  • #19
                    the_scx seems stranegly upset by people enjoying open source, preservation of hardware and finding uses for old systems. He also seems strangely drawn to Windows and closed source development models (strange because this is Phoronix). ... however, it's only strange if I assume he's a good intentioned human. It's not strange at all, if I assume he's something else.

                    You want us to fight you the_scx? Do you want some angry debates over what largely amounts to personal preference?

                    Keep your cool people. These troublemakers are everywhere

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by the_scx View Post
                      What is more, you don't need constant updates to the driver if system provides a sane and stable ABI for drivers. And that's how it is in the Windows world.
                      Please take a look at WDM (Windows Driver Model), WDF (Windows Driver Frameworks) and WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model). KMDF 1.1, 1.5 and 1.7 supports Windows Windows 2000-10. The same applies to UMDF 1.7 and 1.9. See also: Windows Driver Kit. Unfortunately, Linux has nothing like that.
                      the same windows driver model that forced users to throw all their devices because they offered only 32-bit drivers?

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