X.Org Server Closer To Better Handling On-Demand XWayland Startup

[phoronix]

Phoronix: X.Org Server Closer To Better Handling On-Demand XWayland Startup

Merged this week to the X.Org Server code-base was an EGL-based GLX provider for helping XWayland and allowing some games to run nicely now under this X11 code-path for Wayland compositors. While not yet merged, another interesting bit of XWayland code is now under review as a merge request...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=XWayland-MR-On-Demand

[zoomblab]

I have done little OpenGL programming with Android NDK. I remember that EGL is the standard API for setting up the subsequent OpenGL context. Since this the standard why on earth are we still waste our time with GLX that if I understand correctly is an X specific non standard API doing the same thing?

GLX over EGL seems a better solution than GLX and EGL. But why not just EGL?

[R41N3R]

EGL should have been the standard right now, I agree with this.

Anyway why is this patch necessary? I thought kwin worked without it perfectly fine and it started Xwayland only on demand since a long time.

[smitty3268]

I have done little OpenGL programming with Android NDK. I remember that EGL is the standard API for setting up the subsequent OpenGL context. Since this the standard why on earth are we still waste our time with GLX that if I understand correctly is an X specific non standard API doing the same thing?

GLX over EGL seems a better solution than GLX and EGL. But why not just EGL?

Because backwards compatibility. If you don't care about that, then why use X at all.

[lucrus]

Michael's learnt a new english word and he jives with it.

[uid313]

I would like to run GNOME in a stricly Wayland-exclusive installation without having X or XWayland installed.

[uid313]

I would like to run Debian Sid Xfce without 15 packages of wayland bloatware installed in my nvme drive.

Exactly!
You should be able to run GNOME with X.Org or Wayland.
But now GNOME forces you to install both X.Org and Wayland.

[Vistaus]

I would like to run Debian Sid Xfce without 15 packages of wayland bloatware installed in my nvme drive.

YOU, master of Frankendebian with PPA's and stuff, want to run SID?

[oiaohm]

I would like to run Debian Sid Xfce without 15 packages of wayland bloatware installed in my nvme drive.

Maybe this is telling you something.

If wayland was a X11 extension feature you most likely would not have complained. There are many X11 unused feature support installed by gnome as well yet you don't complain about them.

Exactly!
You should be able to run GNOME with X.Org or Wayland.
But now GNOME forces you to install both X.Org and Wayland.

Remember Gnome is a compositor based desktop.

https://wayland.freedesktop.org/architecture.html

Lets do some basic counting. For graphics to screen.
X11 native with compositors desktop
1) X11 Application
2) X11 server.
3) Compositor
4) X11 server
5) finally to graphics.
This here can be 3 buffers at worst.

Now lets to the xwayland/wayland path.
1)X11 application
2) xwayland/X11 server
3) Wayland compositor.
4) finally to graphics.
This is 2 buffers at worst.

Of course in the process they made.
1) wayland application
2) Wayland compositor
3) finally to graphics.
This is 1 buffer at worst.

Wayland is basically the compositor extension of X11 rewritten kind of sanely. Wayland is designed to reduce the compositor desktop output latency problem.

Of course at some point in future I do expect the X11 composite extension to go the way of XPrint.

Gtk and the like force you to install Wayland stuff because long time like it or not the only way to reduce output latency on composited desktops take compositor outside the X11 protocol. Dealing with the input latency to application caused by the security improvement of wayland will require some serous though.

X11 protocol may live but the X11 composite extension need to die.

[oiaohm]

So you agree that there is no point to develop wayland. Xorg foundation must maintain two systems instead of one. Wayland just adds extra work and not make life easier what was their plan.

I did not say no point to develop wayland. Wayland is the replacement to the X11 composite extension. So wayland is part of the x.org X11 server future if it has any future.

Wayland is not a independent developed system. Wayland lead developer was also one of the core developers of the X11 composite extension. Yes Wayland is X11 composite extension design fixed along the way it was found that x11 server is most likely optional.

Please note I said "X11 protocol may live". May live is the keywords I don't believe long term X11 protocol has to stay alive in any dominate way X11 will become only used by legacy. No matter what path you choose using xorg server is going to be more output latency on your applications than going wayland or direct DRM/DRI.