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  • #21
    Originally posted by euler271 View Post
    It's funny you say that (the image I mean). As matter of fact, the same argument can be applied to other group of ppl
    And usually it would be mostly true.

    The cases where some nation or ethnicity is 100% hell bent to destroy something is mostly fiction or propaganda, created by parties that have interest in spreading this FUD.

    "If Israel was really evil, as many ppl tend to be sure of, there wouldnt even be more Palestinian, they'd had wiped them out in a week a long time ago, but look they still are right in the same place they have always been, and you can say the same about the other Arab countries, if the 6 day war would had taken a month, which was simply a potential choice from happening, most of the arab states right now wouldnt be no more"
    The fundamental mistake you are making with this example is applying the statement above which is about people to Israel which is a nation (or arab states).

    in a nation you can get few lobbies controlling most of it, and these lobbies usually don't represent even 50% of what the citizens actually want. For example not even Nazism had more than 40% of support from citizens in elections, which is why they had to take power by force.

    If you actually look at people, you'll be hard-pressed to find those willing to fight, kill and die for bullshit reasons unless they are living in desperate conditions or have been somehow conditioned (which isn't something you can pull off reliably on a large scale).

    And it's this thing that keeps Israel from going full-nazi on palestinians, or arab states from doing anything noteworthy to Israel (even if they really want to). If they push it too far they would get their own population to rebel or strongly oppose their parties in political elections, and that's something they don't want to happen. It was called the "home front". The US for example had one of such collapses with the Vietnam war, they were going to win, but had to pull out and let it go to shit because their own citizens started opposing that very strongly.
    Last edited by starshipeleven; 06-24-2018, 10:23 AM.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Weasel View Post
      Most terrorists are Muslims. This does not mean that most Muslims are terrorists, though I'm sure some people lack enough logic that I had to point that out.
      Most terrorist are not Muslim, you are simply not counting and looking at the white ones. Maybe start looking at all the white US school shooters as terrorists, and the picture quickly turns differently.

      Think of it like optimizing software: you profile to see where the hotspots are, and then optimize and focus on those hotspots mostly. You don't inspect every piece of code "equally". Guess where the terrorism hotspot is? This is called efficiency.
      Can we optimise away weapons in regular Joe users hand in the USA then?

      Why is this even a thing? You know which countries got bombed lately for being idiots, if you don't believe logical theory, at least accept facts eh? Or maybe you're butthurt the US is too efficient or something and want payback? (and btw a LOT of Europeans are disgusted by what the EU has done, keep thinking it's only the US who is against such stupidity).
      First of all no country should have the right to just bomb around in other countries just because they are idiots. This would already avoid 50% of the problem. The other half of the problem is, that the USA / CIA messed up those counties they are bombing now to start with. Maybe the USA could stop meddling with such other countries to start with, ..!?

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Weasel View Post
        Most terrorists are Muslims.
        I would really like to see the numbers backing up this claim. I think also CIA and NSA would love to know your sources too.

        Pretty sure I said people not citizens, but ok? The government is ran by robots.
        Sorry to inform you that "state" does not necessarily mean "government", this is one of those cases.

        For your picture: clearly logic is not your forte
        You can apply logic all you want, but if you keep pulling data out of your ass like above you will still reach flawed conclusions. Logic alone is not reliable, scientific method is. And scientific method requires valid data first, THEN logic.

        Think of it like optimizing software: you profile to see where the hotspots are, and then optimize and focus on those hotspots mostly. You don't inspect every piece of code "equally". Guess where the terrorism hotspot is? This is called efficiency.
        No this is called smokescreen to profit the situation and claim they are doing something without actually doing a damn.
        Killing mooks is the least efficient way to win a war.

        If they were really doing this efficiently we would see Saudi Arabia burning, that's the main source of the money required to support ISIS now and Al Qaeda back then.

        Once the supply lines stop, then mooks can be mopped up.

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        • #24
          unapproved post for Weasel above

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          • #25
            why is there politics in a tech forum? this is why I hate SJW people they have to force politics (especially their agenda) everywhere, even when it's not needed and does more harm than good. Personally I would just remove/close this all together ....and if there is some warning system (or timeout or alike) then I would maybe give it everyone involved (& not make it one sided)... Do I have opinions about this shit oc but I'm smart enough to know where to talk about it.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by rene View Post
              Most terrorist are not Muslim, you are simply not counting and looking at the white ones. Maybe start looking at all the white US school shooters as terrorists, and the picture quickly turns differently.
              I'm not counting anything because they're not my statistics. I wouldn't really put the school shooters as terrorists, because their goal is not to incite terror in most cases, it's because they have a mental problem. They don't have a greater goal and they don't care about terrorizing the nation. You can't seriously compare that with Islamic terrorist organizations that even took down WTC, come on. Random school shooters are small fish in comparison.

              Originally posted by rene View Post
              Can we optimise away weapons in regular Joe users hand in the USA then?
              The right to bear arms is in their constitution, so no. There are AI developments to detect guns much better than simple metal detectors (and also non-invasive), currently on test in several schools (undisclosed for obvious reasons), so... won't be a problem for much longer.

              Originally posted by rene View Post
              First of all no country should have the right to just bomb around in other countries just because they are idiots. This would already avoid 50% of the problem. The other half of the problem is, that the USA / CIA messed up those counties they are bombing now to start with. Maybe the USA could stop meddling with such other countries to start with, ..!?
              Man, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the bombs in Germany and France from the muslim terrorists that happened awhile back (the idiots being Merkel and co). Believe it or not but a lot of Europeans are disgruntled at the EU's decisions, why do you think Brexit happened? Anyway it's not the topic but I wanted to clarify what I meant.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              You can apply logic all you want, but if you keep pulling data out of your ass like above you will still reach flawed conclusions. Logic alone is not reliable, scientific method is. And scientific method requires valid data first, THEN logic.

              No this is called smokescreen to profit the situation and claim they are doing something without actually doing a damn.
              Killing mooks is the least efficient way to win a war.

              If they were really doing this efficiently we would see Saudi Arabia burning, that's the main source of the money required to support ISIS now and Al Qaeda back then.

              Once the supply lines stop, then mooks can be mopped up.
              I agree about the scientific method, but I'm not that interested in politics to care enough to dig this up, sorry. (so I know I'm not stating any facts, just my opinion). However, I'm pretty sure it's true, how many bombings happen without the person being Muslim or affiliated with something Islamic? Come on. You rarely see suicide bombers (if ever!) without them being linked somehow to an Islamic terrorist organization.

              Random shootings are usually not terrorists, they're just murders. Terrorism is when they do want to inspire terror into the population. Those people usually don't give a shit, they just want to kill people because of whatever reason (mental problem), they even kill themselves after the fact without working for someone else.

              And I wasn't talking about any "war".

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                However, I'm pretty sure it's true
                And I'm pretty sure you should back it up with some data if you want to convince people. Pretty please.

                how many bombings happen without the person being Muslim or affiliated with something Islamic? Come on. You rarely see suicide bombers (if ever!) without them being linked somehow to an Islamic terrorist organization.
                Ahem, you talked about the amount of terrorists, not of bombings, nor of suicide bombers, nice shifting of goalposts there.

                If you count terrorists you should really count all those in East Europe, which don't make the news because quite frankly none in the western world is giving 2 shits about terrorism in ex-soviet states. http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com...astern-europe/

                Random shootings are usually not terrorists, they're just murders.
                It's unclear if many "terrorist attacks" were in fact terrorism or unstable people that acted mostly on their own and happened to be muslim, and then some terrorist organization claimed it was one of theirs (yeah right, totally trustworthy).

                Like the one where that guy drove a truck over pedestrians in France.

                And I wasn't talking about any "war".
                "Terrorism" hotspots are in low-ish-intensity warzones currently (the usual places). In the sense that what the media calls "terrorist" attacks are technically guerrilla warfare.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by ahjolinna View Post
                  why is there politics in a tech forum?
                  Because it appears to be unmoderated, so anything goes.

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                  • #29
                    Oh, it goes on.
                    The issue is this will reach pages 4, 5, 6. Any hope of talking about what the thread is about is lost.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                      And I'm pretty sure you should back it up with some data if you want to convince people. Pretty please.
                      Nah, sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not really trying to convince anyone just sharing my opinion (I didn't start it anyway). I mean, I *do* understand I'm not being scientific at all, and never expected people to really understand (just look them up themselves if they care enough or not).

                      Reason being that I'm really not that interested in politics...

                      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                      Ahem, you talked about the amount of terrorists, not of bombings, nor of suicide bombers, nice shifting of goalposts there.

                      If you count terrorists you should really count all those in East Europe, which don't make the news because quite frankly none in the western world is giving 2 shits about terrorism in ex-soviet states. http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com...astern-europe/
                      Well that's just a wrong way to view this situation. Clearly, the USA doesn't really give a shit about East Europe terrorists? They only care about terrorists in their own nation, and that's perfectly fine?

                      I mean people hate them for policing the world, but when they don't "help" other countries they're also bad? Sounds like people are jelly.

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