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FreeBSD Looks At Making Wayland Support Available By Default

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  • #31
    Originally posted by nslay View Post
    I knew it! The forum responses to this article about FreeBSD getting Wayland by default shows a strong feeling that FreeBSD getting Wayland by default will be doom for all Unixen because FreeBSD is not using the GPL.
    Wat? How is each event you mentioned even connected to each other?

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    • #32
      There is strong bias towards Linux here in Phoronix. At some points reasonable, at some best described as "anything non-Linux deserves to die". Also add in bunch of ill-informed misconceptions like "BSD is crap for desktops and only good for headless"

      PS4. If there wasn't FreeBSD, Sony would have developed their own OS rather than using Linux. It's important for them to keep platform closed down because they are not making money off console hardware - rather opposite - but off games. No point making hardware, selling it with near loss and not earn anything back from games being bought because hardware was used for installing general-purpose OS on it.
      You could not install generic x86 OS on it anyeay - hardware is tehnically based on x86 arch but sufficiently different at the same time.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by aht0 View Post
        There is strong bias towards Linux here in Phoronix. At some points reasonable, at some best described as "anything non-Linux deserves to die".
        There is also strong bias towards BSDs too, just less people.

        Also add in bunch of ill-informed misconceptions like "BSD is crap for desktops and only good for headless"
        Says the one that stated the same misconception himself, while also praising Windows's "superior GUI".

        PS4. If there wasn't FreeBSD, Sony would have developed their own OS rather than using Linux.
        Highly unlikely. Making an OS from scratch for a relatively high-performance system (for embedded device standards) is not cheap. And I'm talking also of PS3 or PS2 too (in their times anyway).

        They would either have used Linux with a ton of blobs (as is the case for most embedded), and released a near-useless kernel source (because without blobs you can't do a damn, just as with many embedded devices), or licensed another commercial OS that was good enough for their purposes. There are a few that are good enough for high-end embedded devices too.

        Linux isn't a silver bullet and it was not even meant to be one, you can use it but still produce Tivoized locked-down devices anyway, and Torvalds is the first to be OK with this, with his decision to stick to GPLv2 instead of going with GPLv3.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
          Wat? How is each event you mentioned even connected to each other?
          It's a parody of this particular thread about a topic having nothing to do with what most of the posts are arguing. Thought you would get that when storage blade and backup desktop were mentioned together... In fact, it's pretty obvious that it's facetious!

          This is Phoronix where even awesome BSD news devolves into a discussion about software licenses, Linux vs. BSD, maybe even Rust (why not? Let's toss it in there), and philosophical implications and history lessons about software licensing. And that's what we see here... despite supposedly being a thread about Wayland support in FreeBSD.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by nslay View Post
            And that's what we see here... despite supposedly being a thread about Wayland support in FreeBSD.
            Ok, understood.
            To be fair, there is pretty much nothing to discuss about the decision of adding wayland support by default in FreeBSD packages anyway. Everyone recognized it is ok.

            Would have been more on-topic to have some flamewars on Xorg vs Wayland fanbois, sure, but it seems that fight is winding down in general.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              Ok, understood.
              To be fair, there is pretty much nothing to discuss about the decision of adding wayland support by default in FreeBSD packages anyway. Everyone recognized it is ok.

              Would have been more on-topic to have some flamewars on Xorg vs Wayland fanbois, sure, but it seems that fight is winding down in general.
              You're pretty brave to post in these topics. I've pretty much given up posting in *BSD threads on Phoronix. But sometimes I feel like a wise guy/jerk and post something facetious/sarcastic or downright mean.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Says the one that stated the same misconception himself, while also praising Windows's "superior GUI".
                Touché. I should have reworded it more precisely : "There are bunch of people who have ill-informed misconception about BSD desktop being crap compared to Linux desktop".
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Highly unlikely. Making an OS from scratch for a relatively high-performance system (for embedded device standards) is not cheap. And I'm talking also of PS3 or PS2 too (in their times anyway).
                They would either have used Linux with a ton of blobs (as is the case for most embedded), and released a near-useless kernel source (because without blobs you can't do a damn, just as with many embedded devices), or licensed another commercial OS that was good enough for their purposes. There are a few that are good enough for high-end embedded devices too.
                Possible. Sony still rewrote the OS running on PS4 on a massive scale compared to 'father' FreeBSD9. Some dude managed to dump and dissect it's internals using software bug awhile a go.
                Alternatives would have been yeah going as the Android did. A lá, here is your useless kernel source, starting from C library everything is "our own" and locked down as tight as gnat's ass
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Linux isn't a silver bullet..
                Now try to make hardcore revolutionary wild-eyed Linux enthusiasts see it..
                Btw, I don't see BSD either as silver bullet, simply as alternative.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by aht0 View Post
                  ... RHEL and SUSE Enterprise Linux are sole non-testbeds. All the rest are, to a degree, for me. No wish to pay, I can get BSD for free. ...
                  What about CentOS? You can get it for free too.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    ... There are also free versions of RHEL and SUSE enterprise. They are called CentOS and OpenSUSE Leap ...
                    OpenSUSE Leap is not LTS. Evergreen was LTS.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by nslay View Post
                      I knew it! The forum responses to this article about FreeBSD getting Wayland by default shows a strong feeling that FreeBSD getting Wayland by default will be doom for all Unixen because FreeBSD is not using the GPL. Without the GPL, all open source software is destined to be stolen and sold at a premium leaving the open source projects behind. Look at Sony, for example... I'm not aware of FreeBSD being able to run on PS4... I would very much like to run vanilla FreeBSD on PS4, but I cannot because Sony did not contribute!
                      Please cut the traditional and eternal whine about Sony not contributing and BSD.
                      • Sony PS4 EULA forbids you from modifiying the software aboard PS4. Are following the licenses something that is selectional in your eyes or what? People and companies are supposed to follow GPL but you can simply ignore them when and if you like?
                      • BSD license allows what Sony did.
                      • If PS4 ran linux, it could still stay locked up using signed bootloaders and other shit familiar from Android. You can bet that it would stay locked, it's crucial to Sony's business model. They make money selling the games or licenses to use games (for South/North/Central America), not from selling the hardware games would be running on. So Sony would make sure the hardware stays locked up.
                      • https://cturt.github.io/ps4.html Read the link. It's fascinating peek into PS4 software internals.

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