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  • #31
    Originally posted by wswartzendruber View Post
    We can put some pieces onto a table and look at how they might fit together. We know Microsoft has a couple technologies near complete:

    1. Win32/x86 support for arbitrary binaries on ARMv8 (see attached YouTube video)..
    https://www.thurrott.com/windows/win...omm-windows-10
    June 9 2017. That feature is now in patent hell.
    Originally posted by wswartzendruber View Post
    2. Wireless proximity dock (internally under test at Redmond, don't remember what news site had this).
    That is 60Ghz wifi WiGig. Not common because that is power hungry.

    it was first demoed by Qualcomm using Snapdragon 810 platform using Android. So this is Microsoft implementing feature that was on the Android side first. Also it kinda a feature that Qualcomm mandates Microsoft has if Microsoft is going to use Qualcomm chips. Wait Microsoft signed a exclusive contract Qualcomm so they have to use Qualcomm nothing like being stuck over barrel. So wireless proximity dock everyone can implement if they can justify the battery costs.

    Originally posted by wswartzendruber View Post
    3. Composable Shell.
    Do we really need this.

    Samsung is looking at android for small screen and standard Linux desktop when docked with full screen. So interface matches operating environment.

    Originally posted by wswartzendruber View Post
    There is also an interesting patent drawing that illustrates a hinged device.
    https://www.wired.com/story/zte-axon...-screen-phone/
    I can buy a phone that comes a tablet with a hinged screen as long as I want android today. Not next year. There are about 18 android devices for next year with folding screen setups. So this is not going to be a unique feature. Really not that interesting of a patent drawing really.

    Microsoft has added active directory support for Android.

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    • #32
      This thread is drifting so much, although interesting (let's blame Mir for not running on any notable device!)

      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
      That is 60Ghz wifi WiGig. Not common because that is power hungry.
      Ah, so 60GHz wifi is power hungry. I could have seen it coming (many gigabits per second is power hungry) but never thought of it.
      Still, if you put a phone on cradle or plugged to the wall (for power only) next to you, it's going to be nice to see a desktop or GUI show up on a TV or projector with a rather high quality

      What's a proximity dock and who was first? I don't think I care much. e.g. I have no idea who came up with wireless display cast first (there's miracast, windows, apple, google..) heck there were graphical terminals in the 80s anyhow.
      If some features work on 60GHz wifi, doesn't matter much who is first, 60 GHz wifi already exists but adoption will take years. In another vein 10 gigabit ethernet virtually doesn't exist in the consumer space but there's new 2.5 gigabit and 5 gigabit wired ethernet. I wonder if these high end phone dock things will support one of these.


      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
      Do we really need this.

      Samsung is looking at android for small screen and standard Linux desktop when docked with full screen. So interface matches operating environment.
      I think they support standard linux distros or desktops? i.e. some consumers will definitely want to run desktop linux applications, but otherwise the default would be some kind of Android desktop mode.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by grok View Post
        Ah, so 60GHz wifi is power hungry. I could have seen it coming (many gigabits per second is power hungry) but never thought of it.
        Still, if you put a phone on cradle or plugged to the wall (for power only) next to you, it's going to be nice to see a desktop or GUI show up on a TV or projector with a rather high quality
        Slightly wrong idea they want to get wireless changing working. So wireless proximity dock with wireless charging turns out to conflict due to wireless charging making radio noise interfering with the wireless proximity dock. Its to make the device water proof and non repairable.

        Originally posted by grok View Post
        What's a proximity dock and who was first? I don't think I care much. e.g. I have no idea who came up with wireless display cast first (there's miracast, windows, apple, google..) heck there were graphical terminals in the 80s anyhow.
        If some features work on 60GHz wifi, doesn't matter much who is first, 60 GHz wifi already exists but adoption will take years. In another vein 10 gigabit ethernet virtually doesn't exist in the consumer space but there's new 2.5 gigabit and 5 gigabit wired ethernet. I wonder if these high end phone dock things will support one of these.
        2.5 gigabit interest me because that can use standard cat5e cables with the standard 100 metre range in all standard cat5e install patterns that worked for 1Gigabit.. 5 gigabit gets a bit dicy if it will work or will not work with cat5e.

        USB C 10Gbps samsung is using fairly much means 5 gigabit is off the table. 2.5 gigabit will be pushing it. So you may end up using the 2.4/5 ghz wifi for internet because that could be faster than going into the dock.

        https://www.extremetech.com/computin...ices-next-year
        60Ghz wifi 4.6Gbps per stream with a max of 14Gbps.

        HDMI 1.0 is 10Gbps per second max with HDMI 2.0 pushing 18Gbps. So a large slice of your bandwidth will disappear into graphics. Please note this is not like chromecast/miracast where you can use compression and stuff up pixels and no one will notice that much. Desktop mandates every pixel exactly right or cause increased eye strain so a lot harder problem.

        The reality here we can fairly much rule out 10Gbps. 5Gbps will be iffy even in 60Ghz docked. 2.5 gigabit for networking should be find-able. Please note 14Gbps is not going to be enough if you want really large high res screens.

        So this is going to be quite a bandwidth arguement. Maybe something better than 60Ghz wifi will appear. But if screens keep on increase in res faster than wifi bandwidth can be expand it always going to behind a full laptop or desktop.

        Originally posted by grok View Post
        I think they support standard linux distros or desktops? i.e. some consumers will definitely want to run desktop linux applications, but otherwise the default would be some kind of Android desktop mode.
        Samsung app for Android basically chroot Linux Distributions. Allowing them to use full screen keyboard and mouse when docked.

        So yes the Samsung one you could have android applications full screen as well. This will be one of the convergence techs in 2018.

        Comment


        • #34
          The point in bringing up Microsoft's work is that they are investing in the idea of a converged device, and I believe they fully intend to make that happen. How successful it ends up being is another matter entirely. The aforementioned lawsuit from Intel is most likely why Microsoft hasn't publicly promised anything at all.

          Someone asked if Composable Shell is needed. The answer, in the context of a converged device, is a rather obvious "yes." At least if users of this new device are going to have a familiar shell experience from the desktop Windows 10.

          I still maintain Canonical was wrong to abandon Convergence, I'm still openly pissed about it, and I'm going to continue to be a in a bad mood about it for a little while longer. The very idea that Microsoft is only one left pursuing this goal is nauseating. I don't care for an operating system that doubles as an advertisement platform.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by wswartzendruber View Post
            Someone asked if Composable Shell is needed. The answer, in the context of a converged device, is a rather obvious "yes." At least if users of this new device are going to have a familiar shell experience from the desktop Windows 10.
            The answer here is not sure to be 100 percent yes. If the shell ends up comprising between desktop and phone experience with neither being great there is no point to it.

            Samsung dex setup where that when you dock to the dex you desktop comes out of hibernation is quite good. Of course the phone is Android the for general usage. Its the Galaxy S8 smartphone with this feature. So its an item I can setup today.

            Its not like users don't use multi interfaces now.
            Originally posted by wswartzendruber View Post
            I still maintain Canonical was wrong to abandon Convergence, I'm still openly pissed about it, and I'm going to continue to be a in a bad mood about it for a little while longer. The very idea that Microsoft is only one left pursuing this goal is nauseating. I don't care for an operating system that doubles as an advertisement platform.
            https://www.gnome.org/news/2017/09/g...-5-smartphone/

            Do note Canonical has joined Gnome Foundation. So its not like Canonical has 100 percent abandon Convergence instead they will do it as part of the gnome project without Canonical CLA getting in the way all the time. Canonical found like KDE and other that is insanely hard to get hardware pass regulators without prior dealing and experience when it comes to phones.

            Phone hardware makers absolutely hate stuff like Canonical CLA.

            [url]https://community.kde.org/Plasma/Mobile/Roadmap[\url]
            KDE has taken quite a smart step back. When android first entered the market it was not a smartphone. It was only a feature phone. I remember have a carrier made android phone that the OS was completely stored on rom. Yes I mean rom. So no adding applications no updating only using exactly what came with it.

            The first iphone no third party native applications. First windows mobile devices no third party applications and also a feature phone.

            Its like the saying you have to crawl before you can walk. Microsoft has basically fallen out the phone market they will most likely need to step back to doing feature phone level with smaller screens and longer battery life. Like most feature phones only need to be charged once a week.

            Also the hardware vendors that were helping Canonical are now helping Gnome and KDE.

            So I would say the deck chairs have been moved around and the ship is still going in the same direction. Canonical as lead was not working that great and they made a balls up with the CLA stuff.

            Comment

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