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KDE Plasma 5.12 Pushing For "An Awesome Release On Wayland"

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  • #31
    Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post
    darclide Well, that's not true. I am a gamer, I use an AMD GPU (with AMDGPU - get it?) to play games on Linux. I actually played Witcher 2 on KDE with Wayland, it looked a lot smoother than on GNOME with Wayland, and KDE with X11.

    NVIDIA users are only a fraction of overall KDE users.
    They are a fraction, but according to statistics a big one. Especially as gaming on Linux is still sub-par on non-nvidia, as plenty of the bigger ported AAA games, like Tomb Raider, only or at least way better work with nVidia. And whilst KDE might decide that they do not care about these users, distributions will likely see it differently, and just go with Gnome instead of KDE Plasma, as it works.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by darclide View Post
      If Gnome manages it, I'm sure Plasma would be able to, if they just wanted.
      GNOME is paid for by RedHat, at least for a significant part. KDE/Plasma isn't.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        GNOME is paid for by RedHat, at least for a significant part. KDE/Plasma isn't.
        A rather big amount of Plasma developers is paid by Blue Systems. As I wrote, they also have corporate sponsoring behind it.

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        • #34
          Zoll it's more than just fixing screen tearing. X server allows any app to grab input, so any app can become a keylogger and see all of your keystrokes, including passwords. Screen savers and screen lockers are implemented in a hacky way that often breaks - they are normal apps that draw a fullscreen window and grab all input. Desktop effects and compositing involve a delicate dance between compositor and X server - any discrepancy results in weird bugs. I believe window decorations are also tougher to implement.

          I've heard that multiple displays are also problematic under X, and this should work better on Wayland.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Zoll View Post
            I'm a KDE developer and I have no plans to use Wayland any time soon. Screen recording? Redshift? I game quite a bit as well (using NVidia driver). There is zero incentives for me to switch to Wayland.
            I'm a KDE developer too. But I would like to switch to Wayland. In fact I try Wayland from time to time already, to see that my applications work on Wayland. And when I try it, I do report some bugs.

            The incentive to switch to Wayland is that eventually we would be able to get a better desktop that would not be possible on X11. It's not that different from incentive to port to KDE Frameworks 5. KDE4 worked just fine, in fact better than early versions of Plasma 5.x. But now Plasma 5 is much better than KDE 4.13. Without people trying and testing Plasma 5 this would not have happened.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by darclide View Post
              A rather big amount of Plasma developers is paid by Blue Systems. As I wrote, they also have corporate sponsoring behind it.
              I doubt that their sponsors pay as well as Red Hat, given the slower pace.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by darclide View Post
                Especially as gaming on Linux is still sub-par on non-nvidia, as plenty of the bigger ported AAA games, like Tomb Raider, only or at least way better work with nVidia.
                Phoronix, Linux Hardware Reviews, Linux hardware benchmarks, Linux server benchmarks, Linux benchmarking, Desktop Linux, Linux performance, Open Source graphics, Linux How To, Ubuntu benchmarks, Ubuntu hardware, Phoronix Test Suite

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                • #38
                  darclide Have you read Phoenix lately? Intel Mesa driver supports OpenGL 4.5, OpenGL ES 3.2, Vulkan 1.0 - all Khronos certified. I believe RadeonSI driver is also Khronos certified for OpenGL 4.5, and recently RADV was certified as well (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...kan-Conformant).

                  Look, I get it - NVIDIA makes a good driver, and you NVIDIA fanboys are like Apple fanboys in this regard. I've used NVIDIA GPU and driver in the past as well, it's pretty good - but they're not the only good ones.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by darclide View Post
                    As long as Plasma / Kwin do not support nvidia with Wayland, at least the category "gamers" will not use it, also likely most people who have to do 3d / OpenGL / Vulkan stuff, where MESA is simply not even remotely on par with the nvidia blob. So developers affected by these won't help.

                    Distributions likely also don't feel like helping, Gnome works with Wayland on all graphic cards and drivers, so for distributions going with Gnome instead of KDE Plasma is a more safe decision.

                    And by that, given developers and distributions have sane reasons to not choose Wayland & Plasma, it will also not arrive for users.

                    This is a shame and should be fixed, people should be way more pragmatic and not block a product for ideological reasons.
                    I cannot agree with your statement, Mesa is constantly improving and at least with AMD you get already a really good performance with OpenGL and Vulkan. At least that is my impression when I look at the benchmarks at Phoronix, maybe not perfect in every scenario but far from being not a serious alternative. I played already a lot of games on Wayland without any issues, only some like Serious Same Fusion have problems to lock the mouse pointer correctly.
                    Nvidia has to provide a replacement for EGLStreams to keep on par. Even If you would use EGLStreams on Gnome-Wayland today, as far as I know XWayland doesn't work (not good for games). Not to mention the issues of Nvidia with X11. It is a matter of fact that KDE doesn't have enough spare developers to solve the Nvidia's issues and to provide special solutions for them. But they can start to sponsor some additional KDE devs, that would be a good start ;-)

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by darclide View Post

                      I have reasons to doubt that. It might have been the case when Martin was more or less the only one working on it, but these days, with so many devs working plasma on wayland improving, human resources should not be an issue. Way less so automated regression testing / continuous integration. And given there is also a paying sponsor behind most of it now, potential nvidia hardware should hardly be an issue.

                      If Gnome manages it, I'm sure Plasma would be able to, if they just wanted.
                      Yes, well, speculation is often reason enough. That why I wrote that I don't have a "real reason"

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