Sway 0.14 Supports KDE Server Decorations Protocol, Mouse Button Bindings

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Sway 0.14 Supports KDE Server Decorations Protocol, Mouse Button Bindings

Sway 0.14 is now available as the latest release of this i3-compatible Wayland compositor that's quite popular among Linux enthusiasts who are fans of the i3 tiling window manager...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sway-0.14-Released

[doom_Oo7]

Good to see collaboration between the Standard Linux Desktop Environment and the broader linux community ^______^

[kon14]

That's hilarious!

You're literally one of the biggest gnome fanboys/trolls around this community. I expected nothing less from you kind sir.

[kon14]

Kon14, any opinions on the protocol?

It allows clients to choose between csd and ssd. There's also support for undecorated client requests which is something that would benefit popup dialogs and notifications.

Servers may also request that all surfaces are server-side, which should be good enough for Gtk+ to pull in the exiing patch as it'd fit well enough with Gnome's standards, unless of course they have anything else to suggest to fix csd, something they brought up. In case they do implement a solution themselves that doesn't offer anything more than this and nobody else seems to like it we'd only end up with more duplication of effort, which is something you understandably seem to detest and so demonstratively accuse smaller DEs of being a part of.

[kon14]

There is nothing to fix on CSD.

SSD support is a step back, to the early 90s. So I guess GNOME treated the bug report just fine; Total ignore.

That's just your opinion. There's "everything" to fix regarding CSD. It looks awful on anything but gnome/gtk and there's no good reason to enforce it. This is also my opinion, but it's also the opinion of a great lot of users and the fact gtk3 lacks any way to disable csd even as a non-default setting speaks for gnome devs more than anything else does. Users shouldn't have to patch gtk or install third party forks of it to get back a perfectly working feature that had no reason to be dropped. If Gnome wanted to create seamlessly integrated apps for their environment they could do so without forcing it on every single gtk user.

I should also point out how you just labelled this as plainly "ridiculous" without any mention as to why that is and then moved on to request my opinion on the protocol, expecting me to be ignorantly shitposting just as much as you were.

I have to admit I'm getting kinda "triggered" here, but I can't help but notice how you're only disregarding these "lesser-de" attempts cause they're not something coming out of Gnome and RedHat's umbrella.

[kon14]

Hilarious, not ridiculous.

I'm sorry I miscopied that part. With that being said I still wouldn't change a word from the above. We clearly have different views on the matter so let's just agree to disagree.

[grok]

What is CSD good for? non-standard windows that don't respect the title bar like e.g. Google Chrome, or skinned piece of crap like nagware anti-virus in Windows?
No one cares anyway, since Wayland still is years away.

[kon14]

What is CSD good for? non-standard windows that don't respect the title bar like e.g. Google Chrome, or skinned piece of crap like nagware anti-virus in Windows?
No one cares anyway, since Wayland still is years away.

There's one petty reason I can think of: Adding arbitrary function buttons in the title-bar, however that could also be achieved by agreeing upon and developing a common interface for toolkits to offer such buttons. With CSD things look out of place (unless you're talking about gnome apps on gnome) and lack consistent theming.

I wouldn't say Wayland wms are that far from going mainstream even though there are still quite a few things missing for Wayland to take off. This is also not an issue specific to Wayland, when it comes to Gtk+ CSD have been there ever since 3.12 and in order to turn them off one still has to use gtk-nocsd (or patch gtk) in order to fake a missing compositor.

Applications should get as much freedom as possible, this includes the right to do decorations. Want consistency yet powerful interfaces? No problem, define a HIG and follow the design blueprints.

Freedom flows both ways though. Users and Compositors alike should be able to disable these decorations without a toolkit forcing them upon them, especially since there's no reason why they can't be optional.

Regarding an HIG, as much as I'd like to agree with you on this I don't think everyone would follow those guidelines just cause they exist. This may not be a problem for about half of the foss projects but it'd certainly be a thing with any commercial and proprietary software, though admittedly such broken standardization already existed before csd to some extent. Just look at XDG, freedesktop in general or any "standard" specification/protocol/api in software-world. Even when the great majority respects your protocol/api there are always people who won't implement/use your thing. This is why taking a step back and working together with others for the best common solution is the best thing to do, cause in the end you may persuade more people to respect what you've built.

[Gusar]

GTK lets the app decorate, GNOME's HIG keeps the consistency. Done.

Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for others, Gnome isn't the whole world. Neither is GTK.

Pure CSD and mixed SSD/CSD can't really coexist and the warnings have been served. Fix your software and your flawed logic or deal with your own self-inflicted problems.

I'll give you an example of how people deal with this: The mpv devs got so tired of the constant "mpv doesn't have borders in Gnome/Wayland" reports that they disabled the Wayland backend by default, making mpv go through Xwayland. That was their fix to *your* flawed logic and the problem *you* are inflicting with your "my way or the highway" attitude.

Also, a number of non-Gnome GTK applications have already switched or intend to switch from GTK to Qt. That is the result of your "chuckling" - loss of support for you and/or people sticking with X.

[grok]

Sorry if I used a trollish tone earlier.


I would like an option (a setting) to draw the SSD title bar on top of CSD windows, even if that's ugly and confusing and only myself use that option.
Though, I can adapt to CSD (Gnome) windows easily enough and use a few of them, but that's only Gnome games and the Gnome calculator. Everything else is "old style" with the Windows 3.1/95/Gnome 2 GUI convention and I run an X11 desktop with compositor disabled.

This is very tolerable but those CSD windows simply are a few accessories (the text editor, image viewers, pdf reader I run are traditional, so about all my accessories are non-CSD).