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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by darkbasic View Post

    What would be far more interesting is a faster version of modesetting running on top of Vulkan. Would Vulkan help in such regard compared to OpenGL?
    I don't know the answer to that one, but I suspect it might. I think there are places in modesetting where they have to go to great lengths to work around GL slowness that would probably be easier in Vulkan. Then again, maybe that's already mostly taken care of by now.

    It sounded like a few people were interested in using the no_error support being added to mesa to see if it helped glamor, at least on lower-end hardware. Not sure if anyone finished that or not.

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  • darkbasic
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post

    Right, but building it on top of Vulkan would take a couple years, and then another couple years to switch the driver. Using gallium the hard part is already done, and you're just transitioning the driver over to an already working stack.

    But like i said, Intel already has a working driver stack they seem happy with, so I don't see them manufacturing work for themselves like this.
    What would be far more interesting is a faster version of modesetting running on top of Vulkan. Would Vulkan help in such regard compared to OpenGL?

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  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post

    Intel was never directly involved with Gallium. There was an i915 driver that Google created for their Chromebooks that you might be thinking of.

    I believe gallium was largely created by VMWare and the original hardware driver that really started using it widespread was Marek's r300 port, but i guess i don't know the details of when that i915 driver started in comparison. Or maybe vmware did some early experiments with the intel driver, but i'm pretty sure that would have just been because it was the best working driver at the time.

    GLNext/Vulkan really didn't come around until Valve started pushing it, which is quite a bit more recent than gallium. There was some talk of really changing stuff up around GL3 as well, but I think that was quite a bit different than the low-level API we ended up with in Vulkan. Gallium was based mostly off of DX10 concepts.
    Ah ok, thanks. you answered my questions well.

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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    I think I remember initially Gallium was developed with an experimental Intel driver. It was really I think just a driver used to implement the concepts and infrastructure. AMD came on board after it was basically working, advanced it considerably and added their range of hardware support.

    So I guess I'm just wondering if Intel as a member of Kronos, did they have some conception of GLnext or Vulkan back in those days? In after thought, they had to have known something else was coming in just a few years.
    Intel was never directly involved with Gallium. There was an i915 driver that Google created for their Chromebooks that you might be thinking of.

    I believe gallium was largely created by VMWare and the original hardware driver that really started using it widespread was Marek's r300 port, but i guess i don't know the details of when that i915 driver started in comparison. Or maybe vmware did some early experiments with the intel driver, but i'm pretty sure that would have just been because it was the best working driver at the time.

    GLNext/Vulkan really didn't come around until Valve started pushing it, which is quite a bit more recent than gallium. There was some talk of really changing stuff up around GL3 as well, but I think that was quite a bit different than the low-level API we ended up with in Vulkan. Gallium was based mostly off of DX10 concepts.
    Last edited by smitty3268; 06 July 2017, 02:14 PM.

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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by darkbasic View Post

    Switching to Gallium would take a couple of years too for Intel.
    Right, but building it on top of Vulkan would take a couple years, and then another couple years to switch the driver. Using gallium the hard part is already done, and you're just transitioning the driver over to an already working stack.

    But like i said, Intel already has a working driver stack they seem happy with, so I don't see them manufacturing work for themselves like this.

    Leave a comment:


  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post

    Other than the fact that it would take years of development to build such a stack, while Gallium is already done...

    Though more to the point, I'm quite certain intel doesn't see any reason to switch away from their current working driver stack to use Gallium either - so it's not going to happen either way.
    I think I remember initially Gallium was developed with an experimental Intel driver. It was really I think just a driver used to implement the concepts and infrastructure. AMD came on board after it was basically working, advanced it considerably and added their range of hardware support.

    So I guess I'm just wondering if Intel as a member of Kronos, did they have some conception of GLnext or Vulkan back in those days? In after thought, they had to have known something else was coming in just a few years.

    Leave a comment:


  • darkbasic
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post

    Other than the fact that it would take years of development to build such a stack, while Gallium is already done...
    Switching to Gallium would take a couple of years too for Intel.

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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by darkbasic View Post
    There is no reason to switch to gallium now that you can implement OpenGL on top of Vulkan which is far more standard.
    Other than the fact that it would take years of development to build such a stack, while Gallium is already done...

    Though more to the point, I'm quite certain intel doesn't see any reason to switch away from their current working driver stack to use Gallium either - so it's not going to happen either way.

    Leave a comment:


  • darkbasic
    replied
    There is no reason to switch to gallium now that you can implement OpenGL on top of Vulkan which is far more standard.

    Leave a comment:


  • boxie
    replied
    Originally posted by frosth View Post
    Edit...left gallium....
    and there is no advantages, on one hand Intel classic driver works good and gallium driver will be cost too much effort on the other
    yeah - they have said in the past that there is a whole chunk of work to move over and it is not worth their time.

    though - come to think about it, some of those reasons (e.g. 2d acceleration paths for X) are no longer really a cause for holding back.

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