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KDE Neon Makes It Easier To Now Try Plasma On Wayland

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Charlie68 View Post
    I notice that in the latest Plasma 5 versions if you have to modify a system file, you can change it without being root, and then save the change to ask for the password.
    Yes, was going to mention this. Once I realised it has that feature I preferred it to opening Kate as root anyway.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by carewolf View Post

      I didn't
      You are kind :-)

      > > Though I guess someone ought to write a sudofs kio slave to make unnecessary for editors.

      > I think I read somewhere that something like this is in the works... Very big think though.
      > -- @Serafean

      Maybe it was https://rpchinmoy.blogspot.com.es/20...his-summer.html
      Last edited by Nth_man; 17 June 2017, 12:15 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by funkybomber View Post

        Despite the fact that KDE Neon is an awesome project, I would hesitate to promote it as a distribution to users because the team behind it mostly focuses on showcasing the best and latest in KDE technology. When it comes to the end user experience though, they obviously lack a focus on that (as they should, it's just not what they are about). The Neon project also explicitly states that "KDE Neon is not a distribution" and I take them on their word.

        Let me elaborate with a case in point. In the latest versions of the KDE Applications, programs such as Kate and Dolphin have been patched to not be permitted to run under "sudo". Now, for the KDE Neon as a project this is not a problem, but from a usability perspective this is a no-no.
        A proper KDE distribution (let's say Kubuntu, Mint or Maui) is never going to allow such an obviously problematic patch to be included in their distribution (hopefully). You can't just break people's workflows like that just because some developer(s) decided that "it is not safe(?) to allow programs run under sudo".

        For a proper Linux distribution the perceived cost of breaking workflows (ie having angry users flooding your forums) is much higher than the cost of "not keeping up 100% with best 'safety' practices".
        It's a "pick your poison" situation, and to me the choice is clear: If you care for your workflows, you stick with a proper distribution. KDE Neon is just a nice preview of the things "to come" when they eventually become properly implemented under a distribution that cares for the end user experience.
        Don't be so angry. Just learn how to use a command line text editor.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by nll_a
          If you are modifying system files, you are not a regular user and thus know your way around the command line.
          I wouldn't count on it! There's all kinds of idiots who are using linux and trying to modify system files. Just have a look at the Ubuntu forums.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by funkybomber View Post

            Despite the fact that KDE Neon is an awesome project, I would hesitate to promote it as a distribution to users because the team behind it mostly focuses on showcasing the best and latest in KDE technology. When it comes to the end user experience though, they obviously lack a focus on that (as they should, it's just not what they are about). The Neon project also explicitly states that "KDE Neon is not a distribution" and I take them on their word.

            Let me elaborate with a case in point. In the latest versions of the KDE Applications, programs such as Kate and Dolphin have been patched to not be permitted to run under "sudo". Now, for the KDE Neon as a project this is not a problem, but from a usability perspective this is a no-no.
            A proper KDE distribution (let's say Kubuntu, Mint or Maui) is never going to allow such an obviously problematic patch to be included in their distribution (hopefully). You can't just break people's workflows like that just because some developer(s) decided that "it is not safe(?) to allow programs run under sudo".
            Wait a sec also in OpenSUSE Leap I can't run dolphin or kate/kwrite with sudo.

            But I can "open a folder as root" from dolphin itself, which opens a dolphin instance running as root, and from there all programs I open (by doubleclick/rightclick) are run by root.

            You mean they took away that too?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by nll_a
              I really fail to see what's so terrible about forbiding sudo for Kate and Dolphin. If you are modifying system files, you are not a regular user and thus know your way around the command line. We will always have sudo vim and sudo mv. No big deal at all.
              Only a Sith reasons by absolutes.
              There are some gray areas between dumb user and sysadmin, and many of those people will prefer having a GUI to do simple administrative tasks because they need to do it every once in a while and the GUI is easier to use than CLI. If you don't use it every day you forget the arguments and every tim you need to read through chmod/chown/cp/mv/whatever manual or looking it up on teh internets.

              Really, the CLI should NOT be the only way to do administration on Linux desktop systems. This isn't fucking Android, show some love for superusers too, not assume everyone that needs to change file owner/permissions/copy-as-root/move-as-root is a sysadmin.

              Also, fuck vim. That's another program with an alien interface that takes non-trivial time to learn. Nano is much easier to figure out for people not using it everyday.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by nll_a
                I really fail to see what's so terrible about forbiding sudo for Kate and Dolphin. If you are modifying system files, you are not a regular user and thus know your way around the command line. We will always have sudo vim and sudo mv. No big deal at all.
                it seems vbullettin ate my previous post
                Having a GUI for administrative tasks is useful for most people in the gray area between dumb users and linux sysadmins. People that don't usually use CLI every day and don't remember the arguments and caveats and error messages by heart, so that every time they need to do such activities they need to look up the man of the command or google for answers.

                Also vim is in the same boat, its interface is NOT intuitive at all, meanwhile stuff like nano is much better for casual use.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by ResponseWriter View Post
                  Yes, was going to mention this. Once I realised it has that feature I preferred it to opening Kate as root anyway.
                  Oooh, I like this too. Does it work for all root-user files or just for system files? (like say for documents or images)

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                  • #39
                    May I redirect your attention away from your rants about Gnome and and developers policies back to the original post?

                    KDE Neon Makes It Easier To Now Try Plasma On Wayland

                    As a KDE-Neon user myself, I certainly appreciate that it is now significantly easier to try out Wayland. However, unlike the KDE developers which claim that the Wayland session is "pretty much ready to use", I need to say that this is pretty not much the case. Although the login experience is pretty smooth - you just see a tiny little flicker - the whole rest of the wayland session is absolutely not up to speed. As soon as you try to work seriously with applications like Firefox, Blender, Kate, Dolphin, etc. you'll not be happy with the experience. Flickering all over the place, the (old Firefox) bug where windows are not updated behind menus and so forth. My conclusion:

                    There's still a lot left to be desired from KDE-Neon-Wayland...

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                      Wait a sec also in OpenSUSE Leap I can't run dolphin or kate/kwrite with sudo.

                      But I can "open a folder as root" from dolphin itself, which opens a dolphin instance running as root, and from there all programs I open (by doubleclick/rightclick) are run by root.

                      You mean they took away that too?
                      The option to "open a folder as root" from dolphin does not exist in KDE Neon (as of 5.9.5, which I'm running in VirtualBox).
                      Apparently this is an option that is being added on the distro level (by Mint, OpenSUSE, etc) to help users with their workflows.

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