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Mir Developers See The Door, No Commits In A Week

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  • aht0
    replied
    Well, looking at it'd dev branch - development seems to go on..

    Leave a comment:


  • blackiwid
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr.Elendig View Post
    <meme>Complains about how other post misses the topic; goes on an Alex Jones style rant about "femnazis" "PC" and social welfare</meme>
    I might go off topic but I did not make objectivly wrong arguments, that Mir was startet because of gnome is wrong... there is no oppinion about that, thats just a fact (or basic logic). I didnt state a fact thats wrong, I might have oppinions that you might disagree but I dont say the moon is made out of cheese or something like that.
    Last edited by blackiwid; 22 April 2017, 10:35 AM.

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  • caligula
    replied
    Originally posted by jo-erlend View Post

    Well, Bazaar is older than Git, which is very similar to Bazaar. If Bazaar should not exist, then obviously Git should definitely not exist, it being the NIH version of Bazaar. Upstart was the dominant init system for years, because it solved real issues. Obviously not NIH unless you really think single-threaded sequential init is the correct way to bring up modern systems. Upstart definitely wasn't a fail. Launchpad is a good system and open source and most people seem to agree that SourceForge wasn't the perfect solution.

    These days, a lot of people prefer the proprietary GitHub service, which is financed by development of proprietary software.
    The problem with Ubuntu's NIH tech versus others is that nobody else wants or can adopt them. CLA and closed community prevent interaction with true open source communities.

    It's not like people went straight from CVS -> SVN -> Git. There were numerous others and people had to choose between several DVCS solutions. Most people want one standard solution. Something controlled by a single biased entity just won't cut it. Bazaar, Mercurial, and Git were all quite popular, but Git won based on technical merits and later due to the network effect / Github. Canonical couldn't admit that the best tech should win, they continued pushing their own sh*t. Even if Git had failed, I would have put my bets on Mercurial. Much friendlier attitude towards the community.

    Launchpad was designed to be impossible to set up by others. Pretty much similar situation with Mir. You can install Wayland on some non-*buntu distro, but you can't find Mir packages anywhere.

    Upstart didn't dominate for that long. When Upstart appeared, distros like Gentoo used other solutions like init-ng. The whole idea was stolen elsewhere (mostly Macs). People could have adopted Upstart but Ubuntu did very bad work at marketing it as a free solution and wanted to control everything so other major Linux vendors couldn't accept it. So RH came up with a vendor-neutral systemd just 3.5 years after Upstart and the rest is history. When systemd was started, nobody but Canonical gave a crap about Upstart. Systemd adoption started immediately with both commercial and community distros adopting it, finally even Canonical admitted their defeat, but kept pushing their NIH crap when everyone else was using the de facto vendor neutral standard.

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  • jo-erlend
    replied
    Originally posted by caligula View Post
    Mir and Bazaar.. LoL the amount of NIH in that company. Anyone remember the Ubuntu One, Upstart, setting up your own Launchpad.. so much fail... and the default encryption in Ubuntu was EncFS with silly file name length restrictions. So much fail.
    Well, Bazaar is older than Git, which is very similar to Bazaar. If Bazaar should not exist, then obviously Git should definitely not exist, it being the NIH version of Bazaar. Upstart was the dominant init system for years, because it solved real issues. Obviously not NIH unless you really think single-threaded sequential init is the correct way to bring up modern systems. Upstart definitely wasn't a fail. Launchpad is a good system and open source and most people seem to agree that SourceForge wasn't the perfect solution.

    These days, a lot of people prefer the proprietary GitHub service, which is financed by development of proprietary software.

    Leave a comment:


  • boxie
    replied
    Originally posted by nomadewolf View Post

    lel
    I think he meant something more like:

    Just think all this started because people didn't like gnome 3 so bad (insert comma here) people started making their own desktops.
    Let's eat, grandma

    Let's eat grandma

    Commas save lives!

    Leave a comment:


  • boxie
    replied
    Originally posted by labyrinth153 View Post
    I told everyone back in 2010 that shuttleworth was a snake oil salesman.
    So.. wrong then and still wrong now?

    Leave a comment:


  • TheBlackCat
    replied
    Originally posted by DIRT View Post
    People already stated that mir was planned to be used on phones and tablets instead of xorg or wayland.
    Wayland supported phones and tablets years before Mir. And there was nothing about the architecture of Mir that makes it any more suitable for phones that Wayland is. There were a couple claims about that when Mir was first announced, but it turns out Wayland already supported the features Canonical needed and had for a long time so Canonical withdrew those claims (and every other claimed benefit of Mir over Wayland, all of which turned out to be wrong).

    Originally posted by DIRT View Post
    They did want control of the display server so they won't ever get the rug pulled out from under them if there was a sudden change they couldn't control.
    Wayland guarantees backwards-compatibility of the protocol, server API/ABI, and client API/ABI so there isn't any chance of that.

    Originally posted by DIRT View Post
    Or shiny new phone drivers for their display server to work with.
    From day 1 they used stuff developed for Wayland to handle those drivers. The android driver support came from Wayland. The graphics driver and kernel support came from Wayland. Everything Mir has in terms of phone support comes from Wayland. So that logic doesn't work either.

    Originally posted by DIRT View Post
    They didn't trust the community to be reliable enough. They wanted to control their own stuff. (also they could possibly charge for their own stuff?) Imagine if you are trying to build a phone interface and basic tools like a file manager keeps having features patched out of it.
    It is easier to maintain your own file manager than your own display stack (not just the display server, the entire stack associated with it).
    Last edited by TheBlackCat; 21 April 2017, 08:42 PM.

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  • pal666
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr.Elendig View Post
    The wayland community in large didn't want to commit the changes cannonical felt they needed for use on phones and the like,
    bullshit, wayland ships on phones for many years. reality is: canonical devs had not enough skill no understand wayland and canonical management wanted vendor lockin as usual.
    Originally posted by Mr.Elendig View Post
    so their alternative was to either create a fork of wayland or write something new
    as i already said it was not the case, but even if it was, how fuck it is easier to write something new than to fork wayland?
    Originally posted by Mr.Elendig View Post
    I'm quite happy with them doing the later.
    so you deserve failure

    Leave a comment:


  • srakitnican
    replied
    I think Canonical should write their own kernel so that it supports Mir, Canonical can't rely solely on community. Since it likes do the things its own way it mind as well rewrite everything from scratch. While it is there it might as well not call itself a Linux distro anymore to avoid confusion with the rest of the community.

    Leave a comment:


  • DIRT
    replied
    Originally posted by bkor View Post

    Mir has NOTHING to do with GNOME 3. Unity 7 was started because they wanted to go their own way. Mir was meant to be used with Unity 8, NOT Unity 7! Why? Still don't understand. After the scrapping they're now talking about Mir somehow supporting Wayland clients or something. Entirely confusing situation.

    Anyway, you did NOT comment on how Mir came into existence. That's a case of ?!?!? because I still don't understand why it is needed (except control maybe).

    Note that Unity 7 relies on quite a fair bit of components hosted at git.gnome.org.... it is pretty pointless to seek hostility between GNOME 3 and Ubuntu. It's like people expecting KDE and GNOME developers to dislike each other.
    People already stated that mir was planned to be used on phones and tablets instead of xorg or wayland. They did want control of the display server so they won't ever get the rug pulled out from under them if there was a sudden change they couldn't control. Or shiny new phone drivers for their display server to work with.

    Lots of these new desktops use the gtk took kit. They were still born out of people not liking gnome3. That isn't creating hostility. Not like gnome 3 would work on a phone anyway.


    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    Yeah, and all of them have their own display server, no wait...

    It's not a technicality, it's the part that makes them different from everyone else, which makes your argument invalid.
    And I'm just saying that there was no good reason to have full control over a display server unless you were on a serious power trip. How many distros have forked X in the last decades because they wanted control over it?

    And? This does not justify making a new display server.
    They didn't trust the community to be reliable enough. They wanted to control their own stuff. (also they could possibly charge for their own stuff?) Imagine if you are trying to build a phone interface and basic tools like a file manager keeps having features patched out of it. It makes you second guess depending on open source. Gnome apps were changing too much. They applied the same logic to the display server. Think about all the new drivers it would need to support on phones.

    Mind you I don't speak for Canonical.

    Leave a comment:

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