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Mir Developer Pleads The Case "Why Mir"

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Serafean View Post
    From this post Mir sounds like a half-assed solution. What? This is the job of the window manager...
    You need to realize that the Mir architecture puts the window manager *in* the display server, after having learned the major problems involved with having part in the display server and part elsewhere in the X11 stack, especially with Compiz.

    The Wayland model is to have no policy about how a display server gets implemented. Wayland is a protocol. There are display server using the Wayland protocol that combine the window manager, and display servers using the Wayland protocol that do not combine the window manager. There is no "the Wayland display server" and each project building a Wayland display server does things differently.

    Of course, this is the internet. You're not expected to be informed in order to have a strong opinion on a subject.

    Mir should be let to die. It has caused needless fragmentation and loss of manpower in the Xorg replacement race.
    Ah, the zero-sum logical fallacy. Nice play, but it's still a logical fallacy. Also, assuming it's a "race" with a single "winner" is a classic expression of a priori political bias. You stray very quickly from the land of technical merit into the land of political advocacy.

    Here's to hoping the eglstreams situation gets resolved quickly too.
    Given the corporate backing of the Wayland project is a direct competitor to the corporate backer of the EGLStreams solution, you're going to have to wait and watch. At least it's not fragmenting the community, this offering two incompatible ways of doing things. Meantime, since each Wayland display server has to implement its own back end, they can individually work around the problem. Maybe borrow from Mir, which has already solved the problem.

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    • #12
      Is it only me who sees this key phrase: "Because the work has been funded by Canonical features that were important to Ubuntu Phone and Unity8 desktop have progressed faster and are more complete than others." ?
      Even without it I will take it as ongoing pr over mir. Probably there is not enough good human resources so they're seeking for suckers who will do it for them. And the whole thing looks like a begging of 'betrayed programmer'. "Oooh, it's so good. Just look at it. It can't die. Don't do it. Why do you hate it? Nooooo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s "
      Lame.

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      • #13
        *sigh* again, Mir developers cannot seem to produce valid technical reasons to answer this simple question. "Why Mir"? "A couple of reasons that apply to Wayland as well, and a bunch of stuff completely unrelated to the question". Great.
        Last edited by TheBlackCat; 12 April 2017, 09:55 AM.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by bregma View Post
          Of course, this is the internet. You're not expected to be informed in order to have a strong opinion on a subject.
          Please stop saying that until you get the basic facts straight about Wayland. You still have not even acknowledged the blatantly false information you have spread about Wayland.

          Originally posted by bregma View Post
          Ah, the zero-sum logical fallacy. Nice play, but it's still a logical fallacy. Also, assuming it's a "race" with a single "winner" is a classic expression of a priori political bias. You stray very quickly from the land of technical merit into the land of political advocacy.
          It isn't a matter of being zero sum, it is a matter of there being limited time and resources for third-party developers. Even Alan Griffiths admitted that having to support both Mir and Wayland is an additional burden on "toolkit maintainers and others".

          Originally posted by bregma View Post
          Given the corporate backing of the Wayland project is a direct competitor to the corporate backer of the EGLStreams solution, you're going to have to wait and watch.
          Funny, then, that the parties are all working together on a common solution that satisfies everyone.

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          • #15
            The thing is: the excuse keeps changing...
            At the time it was that it was impossible to achieve with wayland even if they contributed to it like everyone suggested.
            Apparently now it is possible, but wayland wasn't feature complete (or stable?) as it is today, so they want to make us believe that it was easier to develop their own code instead to contributing to a nearly finnished product...

            Sure!...

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            • #16
              bregma
              I wan't to understand something
              Code:
              egl ----|          |----> wayland window protokoll
              libdrm -|--> mir --|
              ksm ----|          |----> mir window protocoll
              Why not just remove the mir window protocoll completly?

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              • #17
                Wayland is xml. Bad language.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by nomadewolf View Post
                  Apparently now it is possible, but wayland wasn't feature complete (or stable?) as it is today, so they want to make us believe that it was easier to develop their own code instead to contributing to a nearly finnished product...
                  Wayland is finished. All that is left is clients for Wayland (Gnome: Done, KDE: InProgress, etc, etc)

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                  • #19
                    Rgb Gamma control???? Screenshots?? Recording?? Remote desktop? Its all finished now?

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
                      Wayland is xml. Bad language.
                      Wayland protocol is described in XML, but doesn't use XML for transport. It's a binary protocol AFAIK.
                      It is described in XML so stuff can be generated from it.. so it makes things easier.

                      XML may be a bad language (it has many flaws), but OTOH it also has a very good support and is well known by the developers.

                      BTW. Vulkan and OpenGL API is also described in XML

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