KDE Wayland Is Not Yet Interested In NVIDIA's EGLStreams Approach

[pal666]

Last time I checked, GNOME supports Mir

gtk supports mir, gnome can't support mir, it can be mir, but it is wayland

Most people don't care about blobs

all those people are on windows. btw, we were talking about developers, not about target audience of dancing pigs

[pal666]

also

Also keep in mind that Wayland does not require GBM, that's just what Weston uses.

all wayland compositors use gbm, stop spreading bullshit

EGLStream is tied to EGL which also covers Windows.

even if it was relevant for wayland, egl covers windows, but eglstreams cover nothing, they do not exist

[Stellarwind]

NVidia will be fine. People, who care about performance, will still buy NVidia. Wayland will be delayed a few more years.
Vulkan can give a decent performance boost in some cases, but wayland won't help your fps in games that much (most likely there won't be any difference at all for full screen games).

[signals]

And why support Nvidia when they hate open source and standards so much?

Doesn't anybody remember the 90's anymore? I have loyally supported NVidia because they stepped up to the plate with proper Linux drivers for their cards LONG before there were any decent open source drivers, and actually long before there were any decent drivers for any other cards, open source or otherwise. They've always supported their latest hardware on Linux, and for the bulk of the last 20 years, they've been the only real choice for decent 3D support on a Linux system. For me, that was enough to give them my support (and $$$).

Now, I understand why people are upset that they can't/won't adopt the standards of the open source drivers, and I can see why hard-line FOSS types don't like the binary blob, but it's not like NVidia is and always has been pure evil. In the grand scheme of things, they've probably done more to push hardware accelerated GPUs on Linux than just about anybody.

That being said, I doubt that I'll buy another NVidia card until Nouveau is a first-class citizen with vendor support, and I agree with KDE; a single standard needs to be established so that user-space code doesn't have to care about what drivers they are running on. One code path for brand X and another for brand Y doesn't cut it. Whether that's EGLStreams, or GBM, or something else, there should only be one vendor neutral way to do this.

[Guest]

bug77, it is already costly to change over to EglStreams. That's the whole point of the debate. NVIDIA is several years late to the game. They adopted a wait and see approach, came in after the fact and want everyone to make major changes to do it their way.

NVIDIA's driver is nice and all, but, fuck you NVIDIA.

[89c51]

Can wayland be made to work with vulkan and the nvidia drivers supporting vulkan?

[SaucyJack]

Last time I checked, GNOME supports Mir. Most people don't care about blobs. Of the ones who do, most of them only bitch out of principle (in other words, "it's bad because it isn't open-source", regardless of how well it cooperates with the rest of the system). The only people who have a right to actually complain about blobs are the ones whose work is hindered because of it. For example, the KDE devs.

Gnome is really a bad example, they're rolling around in so much money that they can support whatever they want to and not break a sweat.

[nadro]

Nvidia always had own, stupid approach... At first NV policy caused a lot of problems for OpenGL (a lot of programmers started to use NvidiaGL instead of OpenGL and just forgot that other GPU vendors don't support NvidiaGL, but OpenGL) and now problems for Wayland...

[Temar]

NVidia will be fine. People, who care about performance, will still buy NVidia. Wayland will be delayed a few more years.
Vulkan can give a decent performance boost in some cases, but wayland won't help your fps in games that much (most likely there won't be any difference at all for full screen games).

I agree with your assessment. It's not just games but also most of the GPU computing software is optimised for Nvidia (CUDA). Even open source software like e.g. Blender runs much better on Nvidia. It will take years until AMD cards will be a real alternative for people who need serious GPU performance. AMD gamers might be able to switch to Wayland soon, but game studios won't drop X support as long as a large part of their customer base still depends on X. Neither will KDE or Gnome for the same reason.

Until everyone is ready to make the switch to Wayland, Wayland will be stable software. :-)

[Cerberus]

Nvidia won't have that much market share for long. And why support Nvidia when they hate open source and standards so much? There won't be an agreement outside of implementing EGLStreams, Nvidia made that perfectly clear.

Linux market share is like 2% on desktops, Steam Linux usage is around 1%, I dont think Nvidia is worried about losing any serious market share in the case they dont reach an agreement which they probably will in the end.