Fedora 25 Alpha Released With Wayland By Default

[nbecker]

What's the status of Wayland with KDE?

[theghost]

Everyone is so smug, meanwhile I've got plenty of behavioral/feature-wise bug reports closed as INVALID by Fedora maintainers/devs, like this one:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1355763 : use Pulse Audio with XFCE or fuck off.

And I'm not talking about adding features, I'm talking only about preserving them.

Now everyone here defending Fedora devs may go fuck off. Fedora has become an elitist club of don't-give-a-fuck-about-your-workflow bastards. Lennart is a prime example of course:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=817186 : you shall not run the X server on the first VT.

Go laugh all the way you want, just don't cry when next time your $favorite_feature gets removed because Fedora devs think it's best for you.

Well, if your unhappy with Fedora's development/packaging model, you stil can switch to another distribution which does not require pulseaudio as hard requirement for XFCE.

[CapsAdmin]

What's the status of Wayland with KDE?

Right now I'm using latest KDE and mesa drivers (intel hd5500) and it seems to work alright ish. Clipboard from X to wayland doesn't always seem to work and X windows in wayland don't have icons in the task manager.

[GreatEmerald]

Well, you'll have to make a decision, right now, either you keep your card and switch back to X.org *or* you buy an ever improving and not so expensive AMD card (like an RX 480, <300$US). But yes, you can't, yet, have a mix of both; I don't think it's really a problem, considering that switching to X.org is really stupidly easy.

Well, not really, since I'm not on Fedora, I'm on openSUSE. But yes, I'm just going to wait around and see what happens. Meanwhile I can toy around with Wayland on my other devices.

[nomadewolf]

Several years ago I first caught a glimpse of Fedora developers being actively hostile towards its end users. And now Fedora 25 has reached the apex of hostility. Using a barely functional graphical subsystem which doesn't natively support hundreds of legacy programs is beyond imbecile. Yeah, I'm perfectly aware of the X server emulation in Wayland but then even if we're talking purely about Wayland, it's just not generally ready to run your displays. Too many things are either outright broken or not supported.

Now, I'm a bit lost 'cause I've been using Fedora since RedHat 5.0 and I don't know what distro to upgrade to. Certainly it won't be a deb or source based distro and that leaves me ... with CentOS 7 only. Luckily it'll be supported for 10+ years and maybe in 5+ years Wayland will become usable.

Since it's creation, Fedora has always been treated as a 'testing' distro. I don't understand why the frustration now...
This means that it always pushes new software that more often than not it's not mature. This has good and bad points.
But no one forces you to use Fedora. I certainly don't for the reason above but i congratulate them for pushing Wayland as it will help testing and shorten the time it needs to mature.

My recomendation for distros is as follows:
.Linux Mint: yeah, it's deb, but it works (very well). Good support (Ubuntu). Focus on users not $$$. Best integration with MATE and Cinnamon.
.Antergos: if you like minimalistic but with some help. Arch based, so some breakage expected.
.SuSE Leap: if your religion forbids you to use deb, this is it. One of my favorite distros of all time. Best KDE distro, by far, IMO.

My thougts on deb vs rpm:
I've used both and continue until this day. RPM has better features, but deb just works. So i end up falling back to what just works for me.
By 'just works' i mean that when i start installing/removing RPM packages, my systems tend to break. Maybe it's just bad luck... But that's my experience.

[nomadewolf]

Also keep in mind that you'll still have the option of using X. Wayland will just be the default.
I'm sure that with a bit of research, even that can be changed.

[erendorn]

Everyone is so smug, meanwhile I've got plenty of behavioral/feature-wise bug reports closed as INVALID by Fedora maintainers/devs, like this one:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1355763 : use Pulse Audio with XFCE or fuck off.

And I'm not talking about adding features, I'm talking only about preserving them.

Now everyone here defending Fedora devs may go fuck off. Fedora has become an elitist club of don't-give-a-fuck-about-your-workflow bastards. Lennart is a prime example of course:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=817186 : you shall not run the X server on the first VT.

Go laugh all the way you want, just don't cry when next time your $favorite_feature gets removed because Fedora devs think it's best for you.

In addition to what srakitnican said, reading these bug reports, you need to seriously rethink your communication style. It's really not surprising your request was denied given the way you handled it, regardless of its inner merit.

[birdie]

Now to the people who say this utter BS: "Fedora has always been treated as a 'testing' distro". Find me a single reference for that on any of Fedora's website, please.

Talking about about xfce4-mixer which is no longer "maintained". So fucking what? It works perfectly, ALSA library is stable, there's actually nothing to maintain. Why they hell did they feel entitled to remove perfectly working software? I can name you dozens of other "unmaintained" yet irreplaceable packages which are included in Fedora 25.

For fuck's sake, Fedora devs actively break people's workflow and you defend them. WTF? What's wrong with you?

erendorn: Well, great, you've read my further comments and made absolutely wrong conclusions even though my initial posts are extremely polite, concise and to the point. It's only when I was turned down I started being angry and hostile, because I cannot find any other rational arguments while dealing with people who don't give a flying fuck about common sense and reasons, and just tell you "it's done the way we like it, and if you don't accept our decisions, you may go fuck yourself".

Way to go, guys. I predict Fedora will lose even more of its loyal customers who actually contribute to the distro, instead of you, petty-Phoronix-no-ones who have never filed a single bug report and who most likely use Windows 10 almost all the time.

I'm done with this retarded posse. Nothing to see here. Lame pseudo-arguments, no common sense, nothing of value.

[danielnez1]

Now to the people who say this utter BS: "Fedora has always been treated as a 'testing' distro". Find me a single reference for that on any of Fedora's website, please.

Let's face it, it more or less is, given each releases limited support cycle coupled with the bugs and breakages. However, providing the infrastructure to support a distro isn’t cheap, and there is no such thing as a free lunch.

For fuck's sake, Fedora devs actively break people's workflow and you defend them. WTF? What's wrong with you?

Meh, for me, Red Hat's apex on the Desktop was Red Hat 8 and 9, when there appeared to be serious effort to give a decent user experience. Today, their priories clearly lie elsewhere, which obviously works well for them.

[gilboa]

In addition to what srakitnican said, reading these bug reports, you need to seriously rethink your communication style. It's really not surprising your request was denied given the way you handled it, regardless of its inner merit.

Let me just quote Mr. Birdie special style, in-case anyone wonder why Fedora devs ignored him.

Artem (Bridie?)

Again, PULSE AUDIO IS NOT A HARD REQUIREMENT IN ANY EXISTING LINUX DISTRO INCLUDING FEDORA (Emphasis mine)
Stop making it look like like everyone must have it installed and must not use ALSA directly.
There are still use cases when direct access to ALSA is preferable and desired - for instance PA adds considerable latency.
And in this case XFCE users are FUCKED because they have no means of managing their volume levels and multimedia VolUP and VolDOWN keys do NOT work for them.


Mukundan Ragavan (Maintainer)

I will no longer reply to what I perceive as shouting matches here.
I will leave/remove the obsoletes based on reply I get here - https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce...ly/031698.html
If it's going to be maintained, I will remove the obsoletes. If not, it stays.


Artem (Bridie?)

Are xfce4-volumed or xfce4-volumed broken? No. Don't they serve their functions? They do.
Doesn't "Obsolete" reduce the freedom to use Fedora the way I want to use it. Yes.
Maybe it's Fedora's stance nowadays which has become "Use it our way or go **** off"?
Pathetic. You refer to that mailing post as an excuse to kill something that works.

Now, I maintain a couple of obsolete pieces of software under Fedora (badly, due to lack of free time), so I can relate to Artem's problem.
However, the language being used is simply childish, let alone the fact that instead of swearing / shouting, Mr. Artem could simply offer to maintain the software instead of trying to force the exiting maintainer to continue maintaining dead software.
As I said above, given the tone and language, no wonder the maintainer simply ignored him.

On a personal note, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

- Gilboa