A Wayland Developer Shares His Concerns About NVIDIA's EGLStreams Proposal

[SpyroRyder]

your comment has no bearing, since development is done not by phone/tablet systems, but by engineers

The original point was saying that Samsung has more of a stake because they're bigger. My point is that it doesn't matter that they're bigger because 99% of their company doesn't work in areas anywhere related to the wayland arguement. Even when you narrow that argument so that it doesn't include the manufacture and appliance areas, so we're just looking at the general computing/phone areas, the majority of their devices and systems can't run normal linux and thus wayland. The ones that do are often not performance critical. Compare that to Nvidia whos devices can, and will, be running normal Linux which at some point will switch over to Waylan/Mir as the default. They have a much bigger stake in the performance and implementation of wayland.

[DDF420]

Linux isn't NVIDIUX, OS developers's needs MUST have priority over hardware manufacturer's, or we go back to embedeed world hell and everyone gets raped by hardware manufacturers.

Last time i checked the GPU was an important piece of hardware much needed in modern desktop . If you are not going to accomodate the hardware,in either the OS or in this case display protocol, i see no point in that useless OS/protocol. My choices now more limited to inferior hardware and drivers. What an improvement.

others play nice and comply to common standards without being pussies.

I give you dumb c@#$ of the year award.Could of gone to so many here.

On a side note for clarification.It has been stated Nvidia could of got involved earlier. So did any one get in touch with Nvidia earlier? Did they bother making an effort to have them included earlier?

So in another 20 years when asked why GNU/linux failed so badly? It all came down to a handful of intelligent people,proclaiming glorious freedoms, making many moronic decisions,destroying hardware freedom to millions of others along the way.

[SystemCrasher]

Since when Linux devs have got problem with showing their middle fingers? IIRC Torvalds is quite efficient in doing so, maybe he needs to repeat it. Come on, Nvidia, are you blind and deaf? Can't you see how AMD rocks the Linux world? :P

[SystemCrasher]

i see no point in that useless OS/protocol. My choices now more limited to inferior hardware and drivers. What an improvement.

So far nvidia is the only one who is truly inferior non-member of Linux ecosystem. Go freakin' read recent phoronix headlines. Full of AMD news? And AMD driver no longer suxx? Vulkan even kicks the nvidia butt? That's how you get Linux support right.

[Sethox]

Last time i checked the GPU was an important piece of hardware much needed in modern desktop . If you are not going to accomodate the hardware,in either the OS or in this case display protocol, i see no point in that useless OS/protocol. My choices now more limited to inferior hardware and drivers. What an improvement.



I give you dumb c@#$ of the year award.Could of gone to so many here.

On a side note for clarification.It has been stated Nvidia could of got involved earlier. So did any one get in touch with Nvidia earlier? Did they bother making an effort to have them included earlier?

So in another 20 years when asked why GNU/linux failed so badly? It all came down to a handful of intelligent people,proclaiming glorious freedoms, making many moronic decisions,destroying hardware freedom to millions of others along the way.

Why do I have a feeling you think that people is trying to push away Nvidia? No one wants that, every sane person knows that competition is good for the market. The dialog of the discussion is aimed on that EGLstreams is not desired in Wayland and NOT to give Nvidia the finger.

[Gusar]

So did any one get in touch with Nvidia earlier?

Yes, at XDC 2014. Two years ago!

Did they bother making an effort to have them included earlier?

GBM is being developed in the open. No one needs a special secret invitation to be included, all they have to do is post to the relevant mailing lists (mesa-dev or dri-devel).

You can try to spin this as much as you want, Nvidia knew no one is on board with their approach since at least XDC 2014, and they knew about GBM, so this mess is on them and only on them.

Nvidia had their own merged framebuffer multi-monitor solution since before there was xrandr1.2, they called it Twinview. Eventually they adopted xrandr1.2. Nvidia also had modesetting in the kernel since before there was KMS. Eventually, they adopted KMS. See where I'm going with this? Here's a hint: the open solution has always prevailed. In this case, the open solution is GBM

Now EGLStreams isn't exactly closed like Twinview and Nvidia's custom modesetting were, it's in the Khronos spec. But the only implementation of EGLStreams is Nvidia's and that one *is* closed. It was Nvidia and only them who pushed for EGLStreams' inclusion into Khronos and it only made it there because others didn't oppose, but that doesn't mean the others care about it and/or have any plans to do anything with it. Spec or no, it's a private Nvidia thingy.

[Gusar]

And of course, post "Unapproved". This is getting out of hand, is it really not possible to disable this crap? And people actually pay money for vBulletin?

[Scias]

And of course, post "Unapproved". This is getting out of hand, is it really not possible to disable this crap? And people actually pay money for vBulletin?

+1 Please Michael disable this thing. It triggers more and more randomly for no reason at all.

[starshipeleven]

Last time i checked the GPU was an important piece of hardware much needed in modern desktop . If you are not going to accomodate the hardware,in either the OS or in this case display protocol, i see no point in that useless OS/protocol. My choices now more limited to inferior hardware and drivers. What an improvement.

You miss the most likely result of this. Can you please explain in simple words what prevents NVIDIA from simply complying to standards and go with the implementation that works already for all? They talked (out of their asses) of 10% performance increase, not that their GPUs will stop working if using the current protocol.

I give you dumb c@#$ of the year award.Could of gone to so many here.

I'm not accepting anything from idiots that can't even quote properly.

On a side note for clarification.It has been stated Nvidia could of got involved earlier. So did any one get in touch with Nvidia earlier? Did they bother making an effort to have them included earlier?

Uh? The mailing lists, rules and stuff are public, everyone can read and join anytime. NVIDIA knows about them because they aren't so retarded to make a driver for an OS they know jackshit about.
They keep blobs and have this attitude because they always wanted to do things their own way, even on Windows where blobs are the norm NVIDIA likes to re-implement everything.

This EGLstreams is just one of the many crap decisions they try to push on others. "no, no, you must rewrite half the graphics subsystem just so we can save some development time on our drivers".

So in another 20 years when asked why GNU/linux failed so badly? It all came down to a handful of intelligent people,proclaiming glorious freedoms, making many moronic decisions,destroying hardware freedom to millions of others along the way.

It's not a matter of freedom nor really a decision.

There is already a standard goddamnit, rewriting half the linux graphics ecosystem for NVIDIA that isn't even contributing to such development isn't gonna happen due to ridiculous costs.

If NVIDIA can step up and do some of the heavy lifting on that it may be discussed for the future, but they aren't going to. They are proposing this crap to save money, and helping out changing the critical components that would need to be changed would require plenty of time and effort (=money).

[starshipeleven]

Last time i checked the GPU was an important piece of hardware much needed in modern desktop . If you are not going to accomodate the hardware,in either the OS or in this case display protocol, i see no point in that useless OS/protocol. My choices now more limited to inferior hardware and drivers. What an improvement.

You miss the most likely result of this. Can you please explain in simple words what prevents NVIDIA from simply complying to standards and go with the implementation that works already for all? They talked (out of their asses) of 10% performance increase, not that their GPUs will stop working if using the current protocol.

I give you dumb c@#$ of the year award.Could of gone to so many here.

I'm not accepting anything from idiots that can't even quote properly. I mean, really.

On a side note for clarification.It has been stated Nvidia could of got involved earlier. So did any one get in touch with Nvidia earlier? Did they bother making an effort to have them included earlier?

Uh? The mailing lists, rules and stuff are public, everyone can read and join anytime. NVIDIA knows about them because they aren't so retarded to make a driver for an OS they know jackshit about.
They keep blobs and have this attitude because they always wanted to do things their own way, even on Windows where blobs are the norm NVIDIA likes to re-implement everything.

This EGLstreams is just one of the many crap decisions they try to push on others. "no, no, you must rewrite half the graphics subsystem just so we can save some development time on our drivers".

So in another 20 years when asked why GNU/linux failed so badly? It all came down to a handful of intelligent people,proclaiming glorious freedoms, making many moronic decisions,destroying hardware freedom to millions of others along the way.

It's not a matter of freedom nor really a decision.

There is already a standard goddamnit, rewriting half the linux graphics ecosystem for NVIDIA that isn't even contributing to such development isn't gonna happen due to ridiculous costs.

If NVIDIA can step up and do some of the heavy lifting on that it may be discussed for the future, but they aren't going to. They are proposing this crap to save money, and helping out changing the critical components that would need to be changed would require plenty of time and effort (=money).