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Streams vs. GBM: The Fight Continues Over NVIDIA's Proposed Wayland Route

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  • #51
    Originally posted by BOYSSSSS View Post

    Well for me on Ubuntu Mate 16.04
    AMD Victor Vran 1080p = 60fps
    NVIDIA Victor Vran 1080p = 30-40 fps

    AMD Tomb Raider 1080p = 60fps
    NVIDIA Tomb Raider 1080p = 50fps
    and overall better performance on AMD on all my games.

    AMD HD7850 mesa 11.2
    NVIDIA GTX560Ti 364.19
    I'm not sure what Victor Vran is but the 7850 is among the 7000 series of AMD cards, which believe it or not are WAY better optimized then 290/390/Fury line of cards under Linux.

    AMD has spent more time getting those cards working fast then the newer ones sadly. Go grab a 290x and 780GTX (is that the NVIDIA comparison?) and I'm sure you'll see the situation changes drastically!

    Also for those ONLY seeing nouveau as the NVIDIA driver option, grow up, its a backend support driver by the community and not an official Linux driver from NVIDIA. Stop judging NVIDIA hardware based on how THAT driver performs atm. And Wayland is NOT the current desktop standard, its a LONG LONG way from being the norm so lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet, give it at least another 12months!

    It would be nice if NVIDIA helped develop the nouveau driver so it was up to snuff, but I'm not going to condemn them for NOT helping.
    Last edited by theriddick; 13 May 2016, 05:23 PM.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
      huh? nvidia driver works just fine here. and it has drm and kms.
      Unless you are using Noveau, the last part of your post is false.

      Nvidia does not have a proper KMS implementation yet.

      Last time they talked about adding KMS is here http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTgxMDE

      And you can see they were already trumpeting around their EGLstreams.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by pal666 View Post
        well, you have to buy amd just to not support most linux-hostile company with your money. but wayland will work with nouveau without problems
        It's always funny to read something about "you have to..." from FREE software evangelists

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        • #54
          According to a nvidia guy from mailing list, EGLStream variant is faster by 10% on a kepler GPU and can become even faster on future hardware.
          Nevertheless, NVidia has upper hand on this: there is a good enough solution for linux desktop, it's a good old xorg server. From the average user's perspective, there are no killer features in wayland, which require immediate replacement. No sane distribution will remove xorg while this will force nvidia card owners to use nouveau, it's not an option for neither gamers, nor 3D software users (that guys are very important: they usually pay for support). So, the option for compositor developers are to support wayland and xorg forever or wayland+GBM and wayland+EGLStreams and drop support of xorg in 2-3 years perspective.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by Khrundel View Post
            It's always funny to read something about "you have to..." from FREE software evangelists
            it's always funny (not) to read one-liner flames from lame first-posters saying the same old things.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Khrundel View Post
              So, the option for compositor developers are to support wayland and xorg forever or wayland+GBM and wayland+EGLStreams and drop support of xorg in 2-3 years perspective.
              Supporting both kinds isn't an option, unless you want to see Wayland delayed by 2 years or so.

              This proposal will get trashed, just like the others before it. It may be better (or not), the issue is that NVIDIA isn't paying for development.

              Sure NVIDIA can ship it inside their own driver and removing support for GBM or even xorg, but that's going to be an inflammatory move, pissing off A LOT of developers. They can pull it off, or it can backfire horribly.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by theriddick View Post

                I'm not sure what Victor Vran is but the 7850 is among the 7000 series of AMD cards, which believe it or not are WAY better optimized then 290/390/Fury line of cards under Linux.

                AMD has spent more time getting those cards working fast then the newer ones sadly. Go grab a 290x and 780GTX (is that the NVIDIA comparison?) and I'm sure you'll see the situation changes drastically!

                Also for those ONLY seeing nouveau as the NVIDIA driver option, grow up, its a backend support driver by the community and not an official Linux driver from NVIDIA. Stop judging NVIDIA hardware based on how THAT driver performs atm. And Wayland is NOT the current desktop standard, its a LONG LONG way from being the norm so lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet, give it at least another 12months!

                It would be nice if NVIDIA helped develop the nouveau driver so it was up to snuff, but I'm not going to condemn them for NOT helping.
                HD7870 is GCN running on radeonsi mesa driver.
                What you are thinking about is HD6870 running on r600g mesa driver.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by Khrundel View Post
                  It's always funny to read something about "you have to..." from FREE software evangelists
                  Okay, okay, let try different idea. You're free to go and implement that protocol yourself and maintain it indefinitely. I'm not sure nvidia would pay you for doing so, though. That's how it works for real. Still, looking on recent headlines, advice to buy AMD has got a verrrry strong point. Sorry, but nvidia's development efforts really suxx when it comes to Linux. Nvidia users are doomed to face a loads of odds, just because nvidia proven multiple times they're just a bunch of ignorant fucks and best protocol they could undestand is a middle finger.

                  Well, in no way someone could aggressively ORDER devs to do something and take it as granted, it just not going to work. Furthermore, particular devs may or may not care if you're using Linux at all. The only entity who haves reasons to keep you happy is nvidia, to make sure you'll buy their GPU next time. But it seems they are really bad at it. Its nvidia fault, they're not a part of development process, so it doomed to be bumpy road for them. Isn't it funny AMD getting their drivers right these days? Whatever, Linux users should really consider AMD, just because they've got idea :P
                  Last edited by SystemCrasher; 14 May 2016, 07:59 AM.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    Supporting both kinds isn't an option, unless you want to see Wayland delayed by 2 years or so.
                    What do you mean "delayed"? Wayland is already here, protocol, server and client library, all are stable, nothing to delay. It's adoption almost here: toolkits. DEs and drivers all support it. AFAIU several distibutives plan to offer wayland server as default by the end of this year. The only thing that can delay is the moment, when it will be possible to drop support of X11. And this moment won't come until DEs will support nvidia driver with wayland (or nvidia will loose their marketshare).
                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    This proposal will get trashed, just like the others before it. It may be better (or not), the issue is that NVIDIA isn't paying for development.
                    NVidia has already implemented EGLImage/EGLStream on weston, maybe they will implement (or pay someone to implement) same codepath in one or two most popular DEs.
                    EGLImage/EGLStream are not some NVidia specific extensions, so, maybe, in year or two this codepath will be used on all GPU-accelerated implementations.

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by Khrundel View Post
                      NVidia has already implemented EGLImage/EGLStream on weston, maybe they will implement (or pay someone to implement) same codepath in one or two most popular DEs.
                      And who is going to take care of that code after it has been implemented? Maintainers have already rejected this approach

                      and someone from GNOME has called having two code paths "highly undesirable"

                      Originally posted by Khrundel View Post
                      EGLImage/EGLStream are not some NVidia specific extensions, so, maybe, in year or two this codepath will be used on all GPU-accelerated implementations.
                      Also this idea has been discredited. None of the other vendors or developers is moving in that direction.

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