Streams vs. GBM: The Fight Continues Over NVIDIA's Proposed Wayland Route

[Scias]

So basically if you have an nvidia card you'll be using Xorg or Mir.

So Wayland won't even support the most popular dGPU out there. That makes it kind of useless.

Mir/Unity 8 is also using GBM/KMS and needs to be patched to use eglstreams, and Canonical may also not want to maintain 2 codepaths, one being only for the proprietary NVIDIA driver.

Also the fight is about Weston here. If GNOME wants to supports eglstreams they can do it regardless of what Weston devs decide.

[Scias]

"The issue is Nvidia has habit to create their own proprietary standard rather adhering to the open one"

So what!!!! So we have a bunch of folk developing a new display protocol/server telling a company to conform to its open ways lol. Ridicules !! Who the hell do these clowns think they are telling 1 of only 3 GPU manufactures what is best practice. .No surprise such a small amount of peoples decisions can affect every single GNU/Linux user with Nvidia hardware in such a negative way.

"Until Nvidia change their attitude towards open source world including Linux kernel, they are doomed to lose long term battle considering AMD gained more clients from Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Apple and recently China market."

No,the only ones doomed, are the millions of GNU/Linux users with Nvidia hardware.

It's been years since NVIDIA gave that EGLStreams on Wayland talk, and years that they knew Wayland developers position about it and all the technical limits about it. Also no other driver or software chose to use eglstreams either since that time. Yet they just chose to continue on that road and now either expect every Wayland compositor to have two separate codepaths or that every driver or software relying on GBM/KMS today to switch to eglstreams ? And that just for one driver while everything was working fine across half a dozen with the same code.
Do you realise how much work that is ? How much more burden is put on every everyone else's shoulders ?

It would have been worth it *if* eglstreams was either a superior solution to GBM, or something more broadly used, but right now it is not, and that puts a lot more additional stress on the limited opensource resources for nothing.

That's quite sad to see as a NVIDIA owner.

[Scias]

Sorry for offtopic but for the love of god please remove the "Unapproved" posts feature or at least make it more noticeable when a new post needs approvement since half the time I don't know if my response was eaten or just unapproved.

[starshipeleven]

In general, hardware manufacturers must be treated like shit and kept in line with violence, as MS always did.
If it wasn't for them, PC space would be like ARM space, no standards anywhere, and the operating system has to be hacked to run AT ALL on EACH SPECIFIC device.

I personally support the "STFU and OBEY" that OS and GUI developers are saying to NVIDIA. That's how hardware manufacturers must be treated if you want to keep the PC what it is.

Has this anything to do with wayland? I thought these were patches to weston?

Weston is the demo compositor using Wayland protocol (the one to show how it should be done).

Any other compositor using Wayland protocol (each DE has its own) will have the same issues.

"The issue is Nvidia has habit to create their own proprietary standard rather adhering to the open one"

So what!!!! So we have a bunch of folk developing a new display protocol/server telling a company to conform to its open ways lol. Ridicules !! Who the hell do these clowns think they are telling 1 of only 3 GPU manufactures what is best practice. .No surprise such a small amount of peoples decisions can affect every single GNU/Linux user with Nvidia hardware in such a negative way.

"Until Nvidia change their attitude towards open source world including Linux kernel, they are doomed to lose long term battle considering AMD gained more clients from Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Apple and recently China market."

No,the only ones doomed, are the millions of GNU/Linux users with Nvidia hardware.

Learn to quote properly if you want to troll.

[fhuberts]

As usual nVidia are being dicks.
They appear to have standardised on EGL stream internally in their driver and refuse to do the work to interface with GBM for Wayland.
Instead they push this work on everyone else.
Just typical.

We should support AMD, these guys are fully opening their stack, they even run their proprietary blob on the open kernel driver.
Especially with their new Polaris chip coming up, none should buy nVidia anymore.

[wdb974]

In general, hardware manufacturers must be treated like shit and kept in line with violence, as MS always did.
If it wasn't for them, PC space would be like ARM space, no standards anywhere, and the operating system has to be hacked to run AT ALL on EACH SPECIFIC device.

I personally support the "STFU and OBEY" that OS and GUI developers are saying to NVIDIA. That's how hardware manufacturers must be treated if you want to keep the PC what it is.


Weston is the demo compositor using Wayland protocol (the one to show how it should be done).

Any other compositor using Wayland protocol (each DE has its own) will have the same issues.


Learn to quote properly if you want to troll.

He can't do that; he's obviously too busy smoking weed.

[Passso]

My opinion would be only lead by performance : what is the cost of using GBM on NVidia hardware?

< 5 % -> go for GBM only
> 5 % -> go for both

For now we just have no clue...

[pal666]

So basically if you have an nvidia card you'll be using Xorg or Mir.

no, everyone will be using wayland. people will use it with nouveau, slaves will wait for nvidia to implement gbm few years later. some people will learn to buy supported hardware

[pal666]

So what!!!! So we have a bunch of folk developing a new display protocol/server telling a company to conform to its open ways lol. Ridicules !! Who the hell do these clowns think they are telling 1 of only 3 GPU manufactures what is best practice

another butthurt slave
your master company is free to develop its own display protocol/server and persuade everyone to use it. i am waiting with popcorn.

[Hi-Angel]

So what!!!! So we have a bunch of folk developing a new display protocol/server telling a company to conform to its open ways lol. Ridicules !! Who the hell do these clowns think they are telling 1 of only 3 GPU manufactures what is best practice. .No surprise such a small amount of peoples decisions can affect every single GNU/Linux user with Nvidia hardware in such a negative way.

It is pretty much folks with ≈10y experience in that kind of things, they're definitely ones to discuss the patches. Besides, I've read the last mail list discussion out of curiosity, and NVidia devs didn't seem to convince that their path is worth it even in the basic claims, which, in short, is about that all that they wanted could be either done with GBM as well, or can't be done with streams either.

I'm not even mention the obvious problems, like those mentioned in the discussed article — about additional code paths everywhere.