2016 Wayland Experiences: GNOME: Perfect, KDE: Bad, Enlightenment: Good

[CrystalGamma]

Both have been passed through [email protected] with review, and have implementations for Mutter.

Good to know. I am looking forward to GNOME 3.20 then.

[boot]

Different desktops, different expectations. Gnome is stable, has proper funding and is backed by Red Hat. There is plenty of talented hackers working full time on development and testing. KDE is just people having fun refactoring old cruft. Don't expect too much from KDE until the latest refactoring is finished and they figure out CSD is the future.

Plasma dev's have stated many times they're not going to switch to CSD:

https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/bl...o-kwinwayland/

[Awesomeness]

Gnome [has] plenty of talented hackers

LOL. They're even too stupid to not make their file manager suck.

[ssokolow]

Different desktops, different expectations. Gnome is stable, has proper funding and is backed by Red Hat. There is plenty of talented hackers working full time on development and testing. KDE is just people having fun refactoring old cruft. Don't expect too much from KDE until the latest refactoring is finished and they figure out CSD is the future.

I suspect they're more likely to implement Ken Vermette's DWD (Dynamic Window Decorations) idea:
https://kver.wordpress.com/2014/10/2...w-decorations/

(TL;DR: Server-side decorations with an appindicator-like means of allowing applications to use D-Bus to use a pre-defined set of widgets drawn by the window manager, optionally exported to something like Unity's media menu appindicator or even a smartphone app for remote control.)

Given that they're opinionated and have a fondness for fancy, powerful component APIs like KParts and KIOSlaves, I don't see them just accepting that CSD are the future. They seem too much like "XEmbed-based tray icons, version 2.0" (Plus, as with appindicators and XEmbed, you can always implement an automatic fallback for DWD on a CSD-based compositor but not vice-versa.)

[thatguruguy]

We don't have to blame anyone. We never said it's ready to use. If people want to try it and conclude that it's not ready yet: totally fine.

What's not fine is trolling everything KDE related and bringing up Canonical and MIR all the time as you do. Honest question: don't you have better things to do in your life?

From three years ago:

Will KWin support Mir? No!

Apparently, KWin will never get around to supporting Wayland, either.

[unixfan2001]

Not really, Wayland doesn't care one way or the other, it's just that GNOME and Weston chose to go CSD, whereas historically and as will be the case with Kwin SSD were used.

Note that I said encourages, not enforces.
While you can go either way, the reference implementation (Weston) uses CSDs.

I guess I should've been more clear.
I wasn't talking about Wayland the protocol but Wayland the overall project (i e documentation, references, examples etc).

[Luke_Wolf]

Wayland encourages client side decorations. That's probably what you're seeing.

Not really, Wayland doesn't care one way or the other, it's just that GNOME and Weston chose to go CSD, whereas historically and as will be the case with Kwin SSD were used.

[unixfan2001]

Also, am I to understand there is not standardized window decoration on Wayland? It seems every window he opens has either different decoration, or none at all...

Wayland encourages client side decorations. That's probably what you're seeing.

[daniels]

GNOME is "perfect"

Let me know when the onscreen keyboard and gamma control works

(last I checked (on F23 anyway), the onscreen keyboard doesn't work on Wayland, which is pretty important for a tablet, and gamma control is important for majority of panels that ship with too-high of gamma)

The OSK works in 3.18.x, as I find out every time I clean my screen. Calibration from colord also seems to work fine.

GNOME on Wayland is perfect except:
* No relative mouse cursor: needed in games (is this a protocol thing?)
* No drawing tablet support (there is no subprotocol yet, about a year after support being made for libinput IIRC)

Both have been passed through [email protected] with review, and have implementations for Mutter.

[CrystalGamma]

GNOME on Wayland is perfect except:
* No relative mouse cursor: needed in games (is this a protocol thing?)
* No drawing tablet support (there is no subprotocol yet, about a year after support being made for libinput IIRC)
* gnome-shell is buggy as shit – extensions blocking their thread can freeze the full desktop (even the mouse in wayland; this happens mostly when I use an unresponsive FUSE filesystem for my backups, so my free space monitor will block when it's busy) and I get crashes on average once a week

So there is two things the spec makers still have to do, and one thing the gnome guys need to do.