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KDE Releases First Plasma Wayland Live Image

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  • KDE Releases First Plasma Wayland Live Image

    Phoronix: KDE Releases First Plasma Wayland Live Image

    As some more exciting news today in the KDE Wayland space besides the server-side decoration support is the release of the first KDE Plasma Wayland Live DVD/USB image...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...a-Wayland-Live

  • #2
    Since Kde is all about making the desktop the way you wont, an option for enabling client side decoration would be nice.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by boffo View Post
      Since Kde is all about making the desktop the way you wont, an option for enabling client side decoration would be nice.
      NO, JUST NO, OH GOD PLEASE NO
      seriously, client side decorations breaks a lot of windowing thins on wayland...

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      • #4
        Client side decorations are awesome. We have different file dialogs for every toolkit. Now wayland will enable us having different window decorations for every toolkit. Is it not great? Who needs consistency when we have... no clue what! I truly believe 2016 will be year of linux desktop.

        /sobs

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        • #5
          Originally posted by boffo View Post
          Since Kde is all about making the desktop the way you wont, an option for enabling client side decoration would be nice.
          There's no point in adding options that can only make things worse. Server-side decorations are superior to CSD in every way when displaying the "default" frames with no special controls. If an application actually uses CSD to a meaningful degree then it will request CSD.

          CSDs just introduce technical problems, and are only good for applications wishing to customise their entire window. If they aren't doing that letting an application manage its frame means any hangs or glitches will impact the frame when they don't need to. Why trust many potentially unreliable applications when you can trust one reliable core system and grant exceptions only as necessary?
          Last edited by Kver; 18 December 2015, 02:53 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kver View Post

            There's no point in adding options that can only make things worse. Server-side decorations are superior to CSD in every way when displaying the "default" frames with no special controls. If an application actually uses CSD to a meaningful degree then it will request CSD.

            CSDs just introduce technical problems, and are only good for applications wishing to customise their entire window. If they aren't doing that letting an application manage its frame means any hangs or glitches will impact the frame when they don't need to. Why trust many potentially unreliable applications when you can trust one reliable core system and grant exceptions only as necessary?
            I have always been a kde user, but the way gnome is dealing with the problem seams to have given some nice looking programs. Kde 5 now looks meh. They put some old macos like icons, that I really don't like, games runs bad, and pressing ctrl+alt+F12 doesn't help much. I have to switch to IceWM for games now. I would prefer a non consistent title bar, than a glitchy desktop.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by boffo View Post
              ...and pressing ctrl+alt+F12 doesn't help much...
              Well, maybe because Alt+Shift+F12 is the correct shortcut

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              • #8
                Originally posted by bitman View Post
                Client side decorations are awesome. We have different file dialogs for every toolkit. Now wayland will enable us having different window decorations for every toolkit. Is it not great? Who needs consistency when we have... no clue what! I truly believe 2016 will be year of linux desktop.

                /sobs
                First, Wayland doesn't force CSD (KWin on wayland uses SSD), and then, applications can already have CSDs in X11 (see chromium/GNOME/steam...). So Wayland isn't going to change anything in this regard.

                Anyways both solutions have drawbacks, so I don't think one should be forced over the other one.
                CSDs mean no consistency between windows titlebars and potential issues should the application hang; SSDs mean no consistency between the application and its own window decoration (unless you use a properly themed $toolkit app in a $toolkit_user environment), lost vertical space, features that could be moved to the titlebar not available, and useless extra windowmanager/compositor work.

                So unless we get back to the 90's Xorg days with motif and server-side rendered everything, there will no be perfect consistency anymore SSDs or not.

                Oh and hello Znurre
                Last edited by Scias; 18 December 2015, 04:37 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kver View Post
                  There's no point in adding options that can only make things worse. Server-side decorations are superior to CSD in every way when displaying the "default" frames with no special controls. If an application actually uses CSD to a meaningful degree then it will request CSD.

                  CSDs just introduce technical problems, and are only good for applications wishing to customise their entire window. If they aren't doing that letting an application manage its frame means any hangs or glitches will impact the frame when they don't need to. Why trust many potentially unreliable applications when you can trust one reliable core system and grant exceptions only as necessary?
                  Stuff is done for the user, not for developer convenience.

                  The best UI for the user can only be achieved with CSD. UIs evolve and today we want to exploit every available pixel.
                  Gnome 3 apps using CDS are gorgeous.
                  Windows and OS X now also allow CSD. Look at the superb Facetime app on recent OS X.

                  So the technicals have to be adapted to reach what needs to be reached and not the other way around.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by wagaf View Post
                    The best UI for the user can only be achieved with CSD. UIs evolve and today we want to exploit every available pixel.
                    I have a 40" 4K/UHD screen now. You can keep your extra pixels.

                    I want a consistent and easy to use interface for getting work done, not some candy apple translucent animated toy OS.


                    Originally posted by wagaf View Post
                    Gnome 3 apps using CDS are gorgeous.
                    I used to be a Gnome user. Until they forced that failed "I wanna play UI designer" version 3 interface on me, with it's disorganized jumble of app icons and requiring three times as many clicks to get anything done. Now I'm a happy KDE user, and I hope it stays as far away from that type of Gnome thinking as possible.

                    SSD FTW.

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