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Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Won't Be Powered By Mir

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  • #21
    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
    If Ubuntu have so many enterprise customers, why do they need put ads in Unity?
    I suppose the real question is, even if they were making a killing in the enterprise, why wouldn't they put ads in Unity as well?

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    • #22
      Why not drop this Mir thing, at least on desktop/workstations, and join the Wayland team? A year from now Wayland will be that much father ahead and developed by most of the big players. I don't think Canonical can do Mir/X-Mir alone, even with more delays.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
        That said, I certainly won't be upset to be flying on Wayland by then. If I can get my hands on Sailfish OS for my phone and GNOME 3.12 is really usable on Wayland, I don't think I'll be looking back.
        Originally it was estimated that supporting both X as well as Wayland would be a really big hassle. Too many differences and difficult to add more layers of indirection. But seems it seems it might be possible, so we're adding such layers to 3.12. This allows distributions to more gradually switch, but eats up more development time. So there is the chance that some things aren't totally perfect yet in 3.12 (though should be *much* better than 3.10).

        Or in brief: Don't be surprised if you have to wait until 3.14 before you consider Wayland good enough to use it by default.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by bkor View Post
          Originally it was estimated that supporting both X as well as Wayland would be a really big hassle. Too many differences and difficult to add more layers of indirection. But seems it seems it might be possible, so we're adding such layers to 3.12.
          I imagine that even in the best case, there'll probably be some rough edges in the interaction between native Wayland and legacy XWayland apps - would that be a reasonable assumption?

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Delgarde View Post
            I imagine that even in the best case, there'll probably be some rough edges in the interaction between native Wayland and legacy XWayland apps - would that be a reasonable assumption?
            There are various in 3.10, see https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointNin...WaylandSupport and see the long list of "known regressions" (some are just feature regressions, not just differences). For 3.12, one important bug was just fixed to ensure that keymaps on X applications (XWayland) is same as in Wayland, see https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointEle...WaylandSupport and http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=707446. What they're doing at the same time is to take things from xorg that should be shared between X and Wayland. So new libraries. This should reduce the differences between Wayland and X applications under Wayland (XWayland).

            I didn't see much usage feedback yet regarding Wayland as in 3.10. IMO we need more people using it and reporting on it, though that is pretty difficult (no nice GDM support yet to easily start a Wayland session).

            In above I mainly mean 3.12.0. We'll of course do bugfixes for 3.12.x but if something requires major changes that would be 3.14 (distributions don't like it if your stable version isn't stable, better have known bugs than to introduce huge changes and risk new bugs/stability issues).

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
              That is the message they intend to send. The message I see is: "Damn, we really underestimated the work that is going into developing a display server that is up to par with the competition, we shouldn't have bragged about how fast we can do this."
              If Canonical would've been a stock trading company there would've been two options: 1) Either MS had kept his mouth shut 2) Been fired by the board.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by DanL View Post
                Mir should be a better product if it's not the overly-ambitious rushjob that it was conceived as. This is actually good news for regular Ubuntu users who don't know/care about Mir and those anticipating Mir alike.
                Well, it is that overly-ambitious rush job the only non-"just business" reason for Mir anyway. Technical arguments had all been debunked, aside from the "Wayland is developed too slowly". That's kind of saying "please, rush".
                Before someone takes out the "but free software is about everyone doing what they want", I don't say they shouldn't be allowed. I'm only saying I don't consider that either good or smart, but they are allowed, and I think they should be allowed.

                Originally posted by Cyborg16 View Post
                Mir is just their way of cheating on graphics drivers (i.e. using blobs).
                Actually, their way to use blobs was originally thought as a Wayland add-in, libhybris.

                Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
                Just a distro with a massive package base with tons of custom distro specific software on time every 6 months since 2004. You know, nothing much.
                Tons of custom distro specific software? AFAIK, upstart, ubiquity, jockey, wubi, Unity and whatever their custom installer is called are the only really distro specific packages in Ubuntu. Compare it to what they actually inherit from Debian and six packages are not "tons". I don't deny it is a good distribution, but you are kind of exaggerating. Also, there was some delayed releases here and there, IIRC, though never major delays (a matter of two or three days at most).

                Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
                I suppose the real question is, even if they were making a killing in the enterprise, why wouldn't they put ads in Unity as well?
                A simple answer is: enterprise wouldn't probably like it. If they want to spend computing resources in getting ads, they'll tell you. They'd be opt-in, not opt-out.

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                • #28
                  do not think so

                  as far as I know, Not only they are not contributing to open source world, but also they are bringing a fragmentation to it too. These projects you are listing are just bunch of collection of scripts. Wayland is something very fundamental and it can cause lots of issues for other distributions. I think the only reason they are doing this is to just protecting Unity being ported to other platforms.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by mmrezaie View Post
                    as far as I know, Not only they are not contributing to open source world, but also they are bringing a fragmentation to it too. These projects you are listing are just bunch of collection of scripts. Wayland is something very fundamental and it can cause lots of issues for other distributions. I think the only reason they are doing this is to just protecting Unity being ported to other platforms.
                    I think they're just heavily focused on themselves. In the presentation they talk almost the whole time as Unity as a platform. Ubuntu specific solutions, etc. If you can target just Ubuntu, but Ubuntu runs everywhere, then who cares if something is used across distributions or not? Anyway, this is the impression I got. Not "evil" or locking out or preventing, just focus is on offering their ideas. Less time is spent on ensuring everything is cross distribution usable.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by bkor View Post
                      I didn't see much usage feedback yet regarding Wayland as in 3.10. IMO we need more people using it and reporting on it, though that is pretty difficult (no nice GDM support yet to easily start a Wayland session)
                      Do you see any of this changing when Fedora 20 is out with its Wayland Tech Preview?

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