Originally posted by vivo
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Ubuntu 14.04 Codename Revealed, Mir Haters Attacked
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somebody has to stand up for the rights of the majority. too many times minorities have taken power and collapsed the infrastructure that the majority built.
Maybe the teaparty analogy was pretty good after all.
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Originally posted by vivo View Post+1. There is off topic, and there is this. Trying to argue about politics is like arguing with the wind. Please stop and let's get back to the original topic of Mir.
Sorry for the threadjack.
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Originally posted by timofonic View PostPLEASE STOP THIS OFFTOPIC NONSENSE, FIND ANOTHER FORUM TO DISCUSS ABOUT THAT OR USE PRIVATE MESSAGES...
Thanks
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PLEASE STOP THIS OFFTOPIC NONSENSE, FIND ANOTHER FORUM TO DISCUSS ABOUT THAT OR USE PRIVATE MESSAGES...
Thanks
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Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostBecause it is harder to enforce a global understanding of human rights and the need for diversity in smaller more clannish environments.
Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostWhich is completely unethical unless you believe that every single disadvantaged person did something to justify the treatment they have received.
Originally posted by chrisb View PostSociety does adapt to extreme inequality, but not in the way that you hope. Historically, extreme inequality has led directly to revolution, both violent and non violent. It turns out that the majority of people will not accept income inequality if they are poor. And if the majority of people reject something, then it can't be sustained without removing their power, ie denying them the right to vote and shifting to a non representative government. That's one of the reasons why income inequality is historically correlated with civil conflict. That does not mean it will always be that way, and perhaps some society will discover a way to have both stability and a stratification of income classes through extreme control over the lower classes (ie. something like current Dubai, although even there the economic slave class has been showing signs of dissent, and there have been riots involving thousands of people, so I doubt it is really sustainable in the long term).
Dubai has problems much deeper than basic wealth stratification. 90% of the demographic doesn't have basic citizenship or a path to such citizenship. Even families that have lived in Dubai for generations of don't have citizenship or the same basic rights as the nationals. The society is also not a democracy with public elections. That's more of a blood line apartheid system.
Brazil or South Africa is probably a better example of a semi-Democratic society with extreme wealth stratification. And yes, it seems to correlate with conflict.
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Originally posted by DanLamb View PostHow are smaller, local governments more suscept to racism/sexism/nepotism than larger, remote governments?
Originally posted by DanLamb View PostI and most of the American right have been advocating accepting and adapting to larger levels of material inequality. We never claimed that a free market will solve inequalities.
To requote myself from one post ago: "Society should accept and adapt to material inequality that occurs as a completely natural part of a society based on personal and community choice and responsibility."
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Originally posted by DanLamb View PostHow are smaller, local governments more suscept to racism/sexism/nepotism than larger, remote governments?
Originally posted by DanLamb View PostI'm not advocating for removing checks and balances of power to allow unregulated governance.
Originally posted by DanLamb View Post"Closing off power to a few" is concentration of power. I've been advocating for the very opposite: dispersion of power.
Originally posted by DanLamb View Post"I and most of the American right have been advocating accepting and adapting to larger levels of material inequality. We never claimed that a free market will solve inequalities ... To requote myself from one post ago: "Society should accept and adapt to material inequality that occurs as a completely natural part of a society based on personal and community choice and responsibility."
Originally posted by DanLamb View PostYou are also mischaracterizing Adam Smith's "invisible hand" (which Mark Shuttleworth was a fan of). You are mocking it as a "spectral" thing, but it's a very reasonable claim.
I also do understand that the Invisible Hand I invoked is not the quite the same as the one Smith himself postulated, but it is the commonly accepted notion of his work I am debating here, and not necessarily Smith's own conclusions. In fact, I think Smith might even agree with me that his limited metaphor has grown to become some sort of spectral deity far beyond the context which his original wordplay was attempting to establish.
And finally, I really do not care what Shuttleworth's thoughts are on this, as I am hardly waving his flag here.
Originally posted by DanLamb View PostI wish I could fix the problems of the world with a comment post, but I don't think that is feasible. I was just trying to agree with and acknolwedge your point that private companies aren't saints and special interest groups are an actual problem.Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 25 October 2013, 11:45 PM.
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Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostBy handing powers over to unregulated local authorities not bound by a global law you open up severe opportunities for favouritism, nepotism, racism, sexism, and all kinds of discrimination.
Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostBy doing this "dispersion of power" wielded by a "meritocratic free market" you would simply close off power only to the wealthy few who are materially advantaged.
Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostThe notion of a self-regulating market is an illusion promoted by people who believe in a spectral "invisible hand" that will come to solve inequalities
To requote myself from one post ago: "Society should accept and adapt to material inequality that occurs as a completely natural part of a society based on personal and community choice and responsibility."
You are also mischaracterizing Adam Smith's "invisible hand" (which Mark Shuttleworth was a fan of). You are mocking it as a "spectral" thing, but it's a very reasonable claim.
Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostSaying you are aware of their existence does not negate their effect or how it casts doubt on your own assertions.
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Corporations DO band together for political power
Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostPlus companies have banded together to effect legislative change - what do you think ALEC is?
Care to guess why I prefer FOSS software to commercial?Last edited by Luke; 25 October 2013, 01:38 PM.
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