The State Of Wayland, Weston (September 2013)

[phoronix]

Phoronix: The State Of Wayland, Weston (September 2013)

Kristian H?gsberg has provided a status update on the Wayland project and its associated Weston reference compositor...

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQ3MjE

[bkor]

Seems Weston will rely on logind, thus systemd.

[kaprikawn]

Seems Weston will rely on logind, thus systemd.

Does that really matter? Who's going to be using Weston, as opposed to Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment or any of the other DEs which are implementing Wayland support? Weston is just an example of how DEs could go about implementing Wayland support.

Though, having said that, I'm pretty sure that Arch pulls down Weston as a dependency of something else, I could be wrong but I think it's Mesa. This isn't really an issue with Arch because Arch uses Systemd anyhow. But if Mesa pulls down Weston, and Weston pulls down Systemd, I could see issues with distros that don't use Systemd, they may not be too happy about that.

I probably should check my facts before I hit 'Submit Reply', but I'm not going to. So feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[bkor]

Does that really matter?

I didn't know it before that's why I commented on it. If you are not on a systemd distribution, this highly matters. Yet another option for non-systemd advocates is not there. From what I understood, Enlightenment is ok with systemd. If you really don't want systemd, seems warning signs are all around: unless you take effort to provide an alternative, your options are becoming less and less. Assuming you want to follow along with all the technology changes and use Wayland, etc.

Note that it was also mentioned at one time that a few DEs might use Weston as basis for their own implementation.

This in relation to the previous long discussions where various people say that there must be an option other than systemd, yet do nothing at all and also ignore the things that are going on. Every time there was a clear sign to take action I'll try and comment on it. Cannot say that the signs weren't there 2 years from now!

I wrote a blog about this, calling for actual work to be done. Basically the only response was angriness that other people aren't doing the work for them. Then various systemd using people saying: "meh".

[intellivision]

I didn't know it before that's why I commented on it. If you are not on a systemd distribution, this highly matters. Yet another option for non-systemd advocates is not there. From what I understood, Enlightenment is ok with systemd. If you really don't want systemd, seems warning signs are all around: unless you take effort to provide an alternative, your options are becoming less and less. Assuming you want to follow along with all the technology changes and use Wayland, etc.

Note that it was also mentioned at one time that a few DEs might use Weston as basis for their own implementation.

This in relation to the previous long discussions where various people say that there must be an option other than systemd, yet do nothing at all and also ignore the things that are going on. Every time there was a clear sign to take action I'll try and comment on it. Cannot say that the signs weren't there 2 years from now!

I wrote a blog about this, calling for actual work to be done. Basically the only response was angriness that other people aren't doing the work for them. Then various systemd using people saying: "meh".

OpenRC is building support for some systemd services, I imagine its use will increase once it becomes the only non-viral licensed init system to do this.
Furthermore Etoile, Razor-Qt, KDE, Xfce, MATE, LXDE, ROX-Desktop, basically pretty much every DE other than Gnome has not made an announcement stating that systemd would become a dependency. Furthermore, many distros like Slackware and Puppy Linux will not transition to systemd due to the actual nature of the distribution. What of these?

I'd also like to see where it was 'mentioned at one time that a few DEs might use Weston as basis for their own implementation.'

[Ancurio]

I didn't know it before that's why I commented on it. If you are not on a systemd distribution, this highly matters. Yet another option for non-systemd advocates is not there. From what I understood, Enlightenment is ok with systemd. If you really don't want systemd, seems warning signs are all around: unless you take effort to provide an alternative, your options are becoming less and less. Assuming you want to follow along with all the technology changes and use Wayland, etc.

libwayland depends in no way or form on systemd. There is literally nothing stopping anyone from writing a compositor completely sans systemd/logind. Sorry, but in the FOSS world, demand does not generate supply; unless work has already been done by other volunteers, it's in the demanding parties hands to supply themselves.

[bkor]

OpenRC is building support for some systemd services, I imagine its use will increase once it becomes the only non-viral licensed init system to do this.
Furthermore Etoile, Razor-Qt, KDE, Xfce, MATE, LXDE, ROX-Desktop, basically pretty much every DE other than Gnome has not made an announcement stating that systemd would become a dependency. Furthermore, many distros like Slackware and Puppy Linux will not transition to systemd due to the actual nature of the distribution. What of these?

I'd also like to see where it was 'mentioned at one time that a few DEs might use Weston as basis for their own implementation.'

GNOME also didn't make any announcement regarding systemd. We've been through this before. Including a distribution like Slackware. That says enough IMO, Slackware goal is something similar to being in control of every little bit. Obviously they won't go for systemd. It is way more interesting that you ignore so many distributions. Oh, they use systemd! :P Furthermore, Slackware doesn't care to package GNOME, so again awesome example right there.

Puppy Linux, never heard of it. From the website it says: "Small size, ~100MB!". Right, GNOME is way bigger than that. Yet another awesome example.

Etoile, never heard of it. Razor-qt, that is being written. XFCE, they actually do support/rely on systemd. MATE, the same. LXDE, no idea. ROX-desktop, wtf is that?

Anyway, your examples prove you wrong. If everything except some really specific stuff moves to systemd, then systemd it is.

Also, calling GPL and LGPL viral: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Jeez man, 1990s have passed! Move on!

[Vim_User]

XFCE, they actually do support/rely on systemd.

XFCE in the latest version runs fine on Slackware without systemd, so while there may be support they do not rely on it. The XFCE site does not list anything systemd related as dependency.

[bkor]

XFCE in the latest version runs fine on Slackware without systemd, so while there may be support they do not rely on it. The XFCE site does not list anything systemd related as dependency.

Ah, same as GNOME.

[intellivision]

GNOME also didn't make any announcement regarding systemd. We've been through this before. Including a distribution like Slackware. That says enough IMO, Slackware goal is something similar to being in control of every little bit. Obviously they won't go for systemd. It is way more interesting that you ignore so many distributions. Oh, they use systemd! :P Furthermore, Slackware doesn't care to package GNOME, so again awesome example right there.

Puppy Linux, never heard of it. From the website it says: "Small size, ~100MB!". Right, GNOME is way bigger than that. Yet another awesome example.

Etoile, never heard of it. Razor-qt, that is being written. XFCE, they actually do support/rely on systemd. MATE, the same. LXDE, no idea. ROX-desktop, wtf is that?

Anyway, your examples prove you wrong. If everything except some really specific stuff moves to systemd, then systemd it is.

Also, calling GPL and LGPL viral: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Jeez man, 1990s have passed! Move on!

Xfce and MATE do not rely on systemd, nor have they announced that they will only support it in the future.
Why spread FUD like this?