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  • #41
    Originally posted by bkor View Post
    Show me that it won't compile without logind and systemd.
    I've come up with errors running Gentoo before, it should simply work without having to be dependant on systemd (as of 3.8 and 206)
    Last edited by intellivision; 09-18-2013, 05:20 PM.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by bkor View Post
      The truth is out there! :P
      The truth is that Gnome developers only want to develop for Linux/systemd and screw the rest out of the market, nothing more.
      If that weren't the case, then they would have given users an option that wasn't reliant on either systemd or consolekit.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by intellivision View Post
        I've come up with errors running Gentoo before, it should simply work without having to be dependant on systemd (as of 3.10 and 206)
        Gentoo GNOME packagers chose to make it easier for themselves and just depend on systemd instead of offering choice. I talked to the Gentoo packagers on #gentoo-desktop on FreeNode, #release-team on GimpNet as well as in gentoo-dev mailing list. Anyway, you said it would not compile, it does. Show me the compilation errors already.

        Aside from above, note that GNOME 3.10 is not out. Do you mean a kernel version with 3.10? It seems to take the Gentoo packagers a lot of months before it is properly integrated and stable. It would be better to look at 3.8.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by intellivision View Post
          The truth is that Gnome developers only want to develop for Linux/systemd and screw the rest out of the market, nothing more.
          If that weren't the case, then they would have given users an option that wasn't reliant on either systemd or consolekit.
          Turning my argument around is a poor form of discussion.

          Regarding not ConsoleKit or logind. What do you mean? Be explicit. Do you know what these things do?

          You claimed several things, I'm going to ask questions on each one to make it easier for you to demonstrate if you're right or not. Good luck! :P

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          • #45
            Originally posted by bkor View Post
            Turning my argument around is a poor form of discussion.

            Regarding not ConsoleKit or logind. What do you mean? Be explicit. Do you know what these things do?
            Poor form of discussion to you perhaps, but not to myself or the majority of users using this forum. Not my problem if you dislike it.
            And I mean power management, there must be a way to implement that without having to manage separate users' and their login session information.
            And why is this reliant on Linux only cgroups? There must be other ways to design a system like this that isn't bound to a single platform.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by intellivision View Post
              Poor form of discussion to you perhaps, but not to myself or the majority of users using this forum. Not my problem if you dislike it.
              And I mean power management, there must be a way to implement that without having to manage separate users' and their login session information.
              And why is this reliant on Linux only cgroups? There must be other ways to design a system like this that isn't bound to a single platform.
              instead of whine to gnome that is using the proper kernel/linux tools go and whine to canonical for a upstart API compatible cgroups/Logind daemon or you can take some time off and fix it and send a patch.

              I expect KF5 to relay more in systemd too next year since it makes no sense to have 5000 hacks instead of a clean solution because some bash warriors reject the solution for some obscure reason, i recommend you read what cgroups do and how can really improve security and process reliability

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              • #47
                btw nobody is stopping BSD/Solaris since cgroups works similar enough to be emulated in zones/jails and dbus works in those platforms too, so if they get interested in gnome/KDE they just have to make their init system provide a compatible dbus api using their OS specific equivalent

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by bkor View Post
                  I said nothing about powering down the machine. I said something about suspend.
                  Which in the real world doesn't make that much a difference: "Hey, you want to suspend that machine when using Gnome? Sorry , but you have to change to logind. Oh, and to systemd. And when you are at it, you can also use journald and whatevertheycomeupwithd."
                  Which in the real world means: Hey, I have to change the distribution to use Gnome? I don't think so, I will change to gofuckyourselfd and use a different DE!
                  Less users seems to be exactly what the already damaged Gnome needs, when you see something like that.

                  Furthermore, I suggested reading my previous posts where I explained this already. E.g. GNOME wrote and maintained ConsoleKit. Now we requested people like you to take over development. Aside from talk, nothing has been done for 1.5+ years.
                  Sorry, but I have the same problem that you have: I am not a coder. Yes, just for fun I looked up your last 40 posts (OK, I just read those about Gnome). All you are repeatedly saying is:
                  - Hey, almost all Gnome devs use systemd, so we don't care. Hm, what are those others using and why don't they care about this?
                  - Hey, we are only dependent on logind, that the systemd developers made it dependent on systemd is not our fault. Was they any talk to systemd upstream, explaining to them that this decreases the userbase of Gnome (not that I think they would care)? Or do you just take this as god given?

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                    Which in the real world doesn't make that much a difference: "Hey, you want to suspend that machine when using Gnome? Sorry , but you have to change to logind. Oh, and to systemd. And when you are at it, you can also use journald and whatevertheycomeupwithd."
                    Which in the real world means: Hey, I have to change the distribution to use Gnome? I don't think so, I will change to gofuckyourselfd and use a different DE!
                    Less users seems to be exactly what the already damaged Gnome needs, when you see something like that.

                    Sorry, but I have the same problem that you have: I am not a coder. Yes, just for fun I looked up your last 40 posts (OK, I just read those about Gnome). All you are repeatedly saying is:
                    - Hey, almost all Gnome devs use systemd, so we don't care. Hm, what are those others using and why don't they care about this?
                    - Hey, we are only dependent on logind, that the systemd developers made it dependent on systemd is not our fault. Was they any talk to systemd upstream, explaining to them that this decreases the userbase of Gnome (not that I think they would care)? Or do you just take this as god given?
                    well i guess in some months you won't have that issue since i expect most distros and major Desktop Enviroments to use systemd anyway and the remant bash warriors will find some way to fake the dbus api using bash/perl. Gnome/KDE/Etc should set as dependency the tools they consider best for their project and distros should be the ones that make sure to fulfill those requirements, if your favorite distro is not able to do so, well is a free world go and choose another DE that works nobody is gonna miss you

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
                      well i guess in some months you won't have that issue since i expect most distros and major Desktop Enviroments to use systemd
                      You mean except the largest distros (Ubuntu, ChromeOS, Android, for Debian we still don't know) and Gnome. For KDE I don't see a move to systemd, neither for XFCE or any other DE.

                      nobody is gonna miss you
                      You will, once you realized that eliminating choice and depending on only one software is a bad thing for Linux. But of course you will deny that now. As I already told that Honton troll: If you are against choice and find comfort with that maybe try Apple, seems to fit.

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