Fedora 20 Moves Ahead With Wayland Tech Preview

[intellivision]

What is exactly the UNIX way?

The exact definition varies, but it's a style of programming at the end of the day.

[johnc]

Since I'm curious, what disqualifies ZFS from being done the UNIX way?

[dee.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy

[Ra698shida]

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[RahulSundaram]

The file system is usually not included in 'the UNIX way', the init system is very central to that idea however. Do you like comparing apples to oranges for a living?

The file specific view of the system is very much part of the standard unix methodology much more than init systems which have always been different between different unix systems and none of the BSD's for example have the same init system at all. Also, systemd is not monolithic and has dozens of different binaries and compile time and run time options, so how is the methology not applicable?

[intellivision]

The file specific view of the system is very much part of the standard unix methodology much more than init systems which have always been different between different unix systems and none of the BSD's for example have the same init system at all. Also, systemd is not monolithic and has dozens of different binaries and compile time and run time options, so how is the methology not applicable?

It specifically targets Linux only features, thus breaking portability.
This lack of portability means that any software targeting systemd specific features would be Linux only, at least for the foreseeable future.

[RahulSundaram]

It specifically targets Linux only features, thus breaking portability. This lack of portability means that any software targeting systemd specific features would be Linux only, at least for the foreseeable future.

There is zero history of shared init systems in the unix space. All unix systems have their own independently developed init system. They wouldn't switch to systemd regardless of whether it was portable or not. What really mattters is the interface and not the implementation.

[liam]

Since I'm curious, what disqualifies ZFS from being done the UNIX way?

ZFS violates separation of concerns. It effectively incorporporates dm, bcache, lvm, and the file system into one layer.

[gens]

The file specific view of the system is very much part of the standard unix methodology much more than init systems which have always been different between different unix systems and none of the BSD's for example have the same init system at all. Also, systemd is not monolithic and has dozens of different binaries and compile time and run time options, so how is the methology not applicable?

thats why fedora is moving away from the UNIX philosophy
"does one thing and does it well"

not that the unix way is good but
systemd is NOT simple

id need a week to teach someone openbsd or slackware as they are the closest to unix simplicity
init starts one or the other rc script that starts others
all rc scripts are simple shell scripts (in slackware and openbsd they are POSIX shell scripts)

for systemd id have to learn a whole new syntax and many new programs
(in init you have to learn one file (inittab) and shell scripting that you need to learn anyway along with coreutils)


freebsd and netbsd use cshell so they are not POSIX systems

fedora and redhat too ofc have moved faaaar away from POSIX
and that's not a bad thing considering UNIX was made to be a temporary fix to OS problems
just dont push systemd onto LSB like you did with rpm and il' still say only good things about redhat to other ppl

[RahulSundaram]

thats why fedora is moving away from the UNIX philosophy "does one thing and does it well" not that the unix way is good but systemd is NOT simple fedora and redhat too ofc have moved faaaar away from POSIX and that's not a bad thing considering UNIX was made to be a temporary fix to OS problems just dont push systemd onto LSB like you did with rpm and il' still say only good things about redhat to other ppl

1) systemd is not Fedora specific. It is used by several major distributions including opensuse, mageia, arch etc 2) POSIX is a programming api and doesn't say anything about unix methology 3) systemd is not a single program but a collection of utilities and several programs in Linux do more than one thing. Ex: LibreOffice. This is just a natural evolution of systems 4) Red Hat didn't push RPM into LSB at all. Other ISV's did.