Per-Session Display Configuration For Mir Has Landed

[GreatEmerald]

What he said is that it was possible in systemd at the time, just not in an ideal manner. That is also a rather old post. Last I checked, user sessions on systemd worked with the latest D-Bus code (unfortunately I couldn't try it out due to Gentoo not having the latest D-Bus). This was a few months ago, so I'm pretty confident it works just fine now. You can start the whole system with just systemd, including the GUI, without using any login manager. And users already have a place to store user-specific unit files (in ~/.systemd).

[TheBlackCat]

The Lennart rant is here ("we want to do exactly the same but Upstart devs implemented a different API than the one we want, so they are responsible for the future incompatibility with systemd")

That isn't even close to what he said. What he actually said was basically "We didn't do what Ubuntu just did because it would break compatibility with Ubuntu and we were trying to avoid that. But Ubuntu went ahead and did it anyway."

[Malizor]

i remember that IRC when really bad for him as it showed he did not even know a thing about Wayland i also remember him changing the Mir Wiki Over it

full session management what do you mean by this? buzzword? system log's? some call a PolicyKit that? do you call Amazon AD's that? what do you call it? can you go into detail? systemd has maybe 40+ features over upstart and, many kernel features on the way

you know a session manager is not needed look at Microsoft Windows

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/RaringUpstartUserSessions

The Lennart rant is here ("we want to do exactly the same but Upstart devs implemented a different API than the one we want, so they are responsible for the future incompatibility with systemd")

https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/ZZWLtq6tYdn

systemd really is needed even for Ubuntu as it has kernel features Web Admins/System want

If it is really needed, I'm confident it will be used later. It's just not needed for now.

[LinuxGamer]

Time will tell, but many thought Upstart was going to fade away (even before 12.04) and it is still here today.
It is still developed and major features were added lately, like full session management (which, AFAIK, is not yet implemented in Systemd).
I'm not saying that Upstart is better than Systemd, just that it provides everything needed by Ubuntu, including for phablet uses.
Perhaps a transition toward Systemd will be done later, but it's just not needed/justified for now.

Also, note that you can "sudo apt-get install systemd" on your Ubuntu box if you want to

He is still one of the main Mir developer?
If you talk about this IRC chat, I think it went quite good, considering that he was alone against a bunch of (understandably) angry Wayland devs

i remember that IRC when really bad for him as it showed he did not even know a thing about Wayland i also remember him changing the Mir Wiki Over it

full session management what do you mean by this? buzzword? system log's? some call a PolicyKit that? do you call Amazon AD's that? what do you call it? can you go into detail? systemd has maybe 40+ features over upstart and, many kernel features on the way

you know a session manager is not needed look at Microsoft Windows

and sudo apt-get install systemd will not work on all Ubuntu's

Btw linux is lower case so it's called systemd

systemd really is needed even for Ubuntu as it has kernel features Web Admins/System want

[Malizor]

Upstart was not a Fix for really any thing it was more of a helpper



systemd and Upstart are really not the same at all Upstart is a replacement for the old init daemon and systemd is a system and service manager Etc

this is from 2011

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html

2013

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

this is just a start

http://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/200-libby-clark/733595-all-about-the-linux-kernel-cgroups-redesign

the bad part is i'm not even trying to troll...

Time will tell, but many thought Upstart was going to fade away (even before 12.04) and it is still here today.
It is still developed and major features were added lately, like full session management (which, AFAIK, is not yet implemented in Systemd).
I'm not saying that Upstart is better than Systemd, just that it provides everything needed by Ubuntu, including for phablet uses.
Perhaps a transition toward Systemd will be done later, but it's just not needed/justified for now.

Also, note that you can "sudo apt-get install systemd" on your Ubuntu box if you want to

"23:50 <RAOF> Heh. It's our turn to pull a systemd!" remember how that ended up? for him?

He is still one of the main Mir developer?
If you talk about this IRC chat, I think it went quite good, considering that he was alone against a bunch of (understandably) angry Wayland devs

[LinuxGamer]

Canonical adopted Upstart and hired the key developer. Nothing wrong with that. It was then used by Red Hat+Fedora. Still nothing wrong with that. Now systemd came along and is (IMO) much better. It would be much better if Canonical switched to Upstart and you can argue about them switching yes or no. But nothing wrong with them adopting Upstart. Though IMO get with the times and go systemd! :P

Upstart was not a Fix for really any thing it was more of a helpper

Can you point me to any source that would explain that these new kernel features are Systemd only and can not be used by Upstart if needed?
About NIH, remember that Upstart existed before Systemd...

As we are on Phoronix and we all love trolling, I would like to remind you the wonderful post of Raof on #wayland-devel after Mir was unveiled :

systemd and Upstart are really not the same at all Upstart is a replacement for the old init daemon and systemd is a system and service manager Etc

this is from 2011

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html

2013

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

this is just a start

http://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/200-libby-clark/733595-all-about-the-linux-kernel-cgroups-redesign

the bad part is i'm not even trying to troll...

"23:50 <RAOF> Heh. It's our turn to pull a systemd!" remember how that ended up? for him?

[Malizor]

its will make it easier if they just used systemd as the kernel is getting so many systemd features it's not funny but you know? Canonical has a really bad case of ?NIH?-SYNDROME

Can you point me to any source that would explain that these new kernel features are Systemd only and can not be used by Upstart if needed?
About NIH, remember that Upstart existed before Systemd...

As we are on Phoronix and we all love trolling, I would like to remind you the wonderful post of Raof on #wayland-devel after Mir was unveiled :

23:50 <RAOF> Heh. It's our turn to pull a systemd!

[all2well]

its will make it easier if they just used systemd as the kernel is getting so many systemd features it's not funny but you know? Canonical has a really bad case of ?NIH?-SYNDROME

Honestly, most people won't care exactly how Ubuntu is built as long as it works adequately well. I can't imagine that Canonical will not build some sort of compatibility layer for Wayland apps, even if what that means is running a wayland server rootless. Same goes for upstart. In the end, we'll probably have multiple compatible systems for windowing and init, like most other things in Linux, and I don't understand why everybody seems to be so up in arms over that idea.

[bkor]

its will make it easier if they just used systemd as the kernel is getting so many systemd features it's not funny but you know? Canonical has a really bad case of ?NIH?-SYNDROME

Canonical adopted Upstart and hired the key developer. Nothing wrong with that. It was then used by Red Hat+Fedora. Still nothing wrong with that. Now systemd came along and is (IMO) much better. It would be much better if Canonical switched to Upstart and you can argue about them switching yes or no. But nothing wrong with them adopting Upstart. Though IMO get with the times and go systemd! :P

[LinuxGamer]

The Systemd project became a kind of large ecosystem which is (ironically?) not dependent on the core Systemd.


For example, the following services are installed and used by default on Ubuntu (at least on 13.04) :

systemd-hostnamed
systemd-localed
systemd-logind
systemd-timedated

These all work perfectly on Upstart.
(not to mention udev)

its will make it easier if they just used systemd as the kernel is getting so many systemd features it's not funny but you know? Canonical has a really bad case of ?NIH?-SYNDROME