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GNOME Display Settings Now Working On Wayland

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  • TheBlackCat
    replied
    Originally posted by Honton View Post
    They want SSD because they don't trust the app developers.
    A blatant lie. That is only one of a number of reasons. There are a bunch of technical reasons they support SSD over CSD.

    Originally posted by Honton View Post
    And I can't blame them when it comes to KDE. Sure KDE would screw up and add inconsistent theming and various fluffy themes. But you can't blame CSD, blame the bad culture of KDE.
    Quite ironic when the biggest problem KDE has to deal with in this area is GTK refusing to respect Qt (and thus KDE) themes and HIGs. CSD won't change that, it will only make it worse. Given this history, GTK almost certainly also won't respect Qt (and thus KDE) decoration buttons and button locations, not to mention decoration menus, necessary to properly interact with Kwin and Plasma features.

    The group Kwin developers have the most to fear isn't other KDE developers, KDE apps do and always will play well with Kwin. It isn't even individual apps that change everything like Chrome. What they, and every KDE user, has the most to fear is the numerous GTK apps that up to this point have been able to work reasonably well with Kwin and Plasma features, but with CSD decorations would suddenly break KDE users' long-established workflow.

    This also explains why Gnome has been okay with CSD. Qt (and thus KDE) apps have supported GTK theming and HIGs for a long time now. So Gnome doesn't have to worry about KDE apps suddenly breaking established workflows, they know KDE devs will bend over backwards to maintain consistency as they always have.

    Originally posted by Honton View Post
    Enforce HIGs, themes, designs etc and you are good.
    Impossible to do when an entire toolkit, with a huge number of apps, simply ignores them.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheBlackCat
    replied
    Originally posted by Honton View Post
    What if I want to have a progress bar in my title bar?
    The indicator spec would have supported this in a consistent manner, but we all know what happened there.

    Originally posted by Honton View Post
    CSD is like prometheus' fire, yes. We can make good or bad of it. The nice part is we decide. Respecting HIGs, Theming and design guidelines are a good way to do it, Gnome proved this.
    Yeah, Gnome is so good at respecting others' theming.

    Originally posted by Honton View Post
    Or are you saying that app developers shouldn't have the right to decide and features must be done away with? That is sweet irony, I think. Gnome wants flexibility and features, KDE wants to be locked down.
    You have that exactly backwards. Gnome is the one trying to decide that app developers have to do away with certain features and do things exactly the same way. KDE wants sensible defaults, but allows applications to override them (just as they do right now).

    Leave a comment:


  • Delgarde
    replied
    Originally posted by drag View Post
    Mir would be a lot more interesting if it actually did something useful at this point. Right now with XMir all Mir does is pretty much compositing. Everything else is handled by the X Server. The graphics drivers are all X drivers in just about the same manner as if you were running a X display server. The input is all managed by X. Mode setting is handled by X. About the only thing that Mir does at this point is just do compositing and the way they do it causes a performance drop.
    Actually, no. Under XMir, Mir doesn't even do compositing, because the only thing running is a single full-screen surface that's being driven by the X drivers. So in fact, you're *overstating* what Mir does... at this point, it's basically just acting as a thin pass-thru layer...

    Leave a comment:


  • Luke_Wolf
    replied
    Originally posted by sarmad View Post
    I have Gnome on my Ubuntu laptop, and I also have Gnome on my media center box, which happens to be a Mac mini but I just found Gnome to be more usable than Mac OS so I installed Ubuntu with Gnome on it. I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings.

    Back to the subject: good progress coming from Wayland and Gnome. Day after day Canonical's decision to start Mir seems more and more like a wrong decision.
    Given that OS X is not only using an 70s era GUI design (sure they chromed it up but it really hasn't actually been changed since they RE'd the GUI Xerox created), but it's intentionally set up to be the least user friendly thing possible (I mean seriously GUID Filenames by default for pictures that have been taken!?) that's not exactly saying much at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by Honton View Post
    First step would be for everyone to agree about CSD. There might be a DE out there who deny the developers the ability to make feature rich apps. This is based on an assumption that the developers are too stupid to do good design.

    Ps. Gnome does CSD and does design work on core apps and the shell. So the blame goes some where else.
    Decorations == feature rich?
    AFAIK, decorations are just this border around the window, with the minimize, maximize, close and maybe roll up/down buttons.
    Also, remember when a lot of people said "Linux is ugly and inconsistent"? Well, that's those days again, if you mandate it. Enabling it is an option, but using server side decorations by default is the way to go, IMO, and that's one of the few things I do like about KDE.

    Originally posted by ворот93 View Post
    So, they have intentionally thrown out as much functionality as possible. And THIS has been WIP for >5y? LOL
    Do you understand what 'default' means?
    Also, yes, they intentionally thrown out as much functionality as possible, and that's because the kitchen sink approach has been proved wrong with X.

    Originally posted by drag View Post
    Mir would be a lot more interesting if it actually did something useful at this point. Right now with XMir all Mir does is pretty much compositing.
    The only compositing it does, should be bypassed, so it's basically useless. Remember all of the useful bits are happening INSIDE the fullscreen X window, and the composition handled by Mir is OUTSIDE this, and only leads to a performance hit (and supposedly, less tearing in some cases, but that tearing should be considered a driver bug anyway).

    Originally posted by drag View Post
    It would be fantastic if Mir materialized into something useful. Especially for the tablets and phone markets. It would be nice to be able to finally buy a 'proper' linux phone rather then to hack GNU style environments into Android.
    Jolla, Wayland, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • sarmad
    replied
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    And if only GNOME was usable it would actually be relevant.
    I have Gnome on my Ubuntu laptop, and I also have Gnome on my media center box, which happens to be a Mac mini but I just found Gnome to be more usable than Mac OS so I installed Ubuntu with Gnome on it. I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings.

    Back to the subject: good progress coming from Wayland and Gnome. Day after day Canonical's decision to start Mir seems more and more like a wrong decision.

    Leave a comment:


  • Awesomeness
    replied
    Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
    I'm confused why you brought the Mir camp into this...... entirely unrelated to this article.
    He's trolling.
    Look it up if you don't know what trolling is.

    Leave a comment:


  • psychoticmeow
    replied
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    At this point Chrome OS has a more functional desktop than GNOME.
    What the fuck is your problem? You sound like a broken record and make about as much sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • KellyClowers
    replied
    Originally posted by Maxjen View Post
    Actually in his latest post about CSD Martin Gr??lin did admit that there are benefits to both approaches and suggested that there should be a protocol between the server and the client to negotiate if CSD should be used or not. I think with such a protocol it should be possible to

    - have an option to enforce SSD globally for every application (e.g. for systems like plasma active where you don't want any window decorations at all or if you really don't like CSD)
    There had better be, CSD can rot in hell

    Leave a comment:


  • johnc
    replied
    Originally posted by Honton View Post
    I think it is very related. Gnome goes ahead and show how much could be done in half of a release cycle. Not only related to having rendering based on the wayland protocol but also all the general work for X replacement. Gnome's swift response shows how much engineering power they have. Having a preview prepared like this is truly remarkable. I liked Gnome before this, but seeing Gnome's plan unfold like this is amazing. Im sure some Gnome people have worked VERY hard. Im glad KDE said no to MIR as well, even burning some bridges. But Gnome's response is a slap on Mark's face. This is personal

    Gnome 3.10 probaly turned out to be much different than anticipated. Maybe not better, but different.
    At this point Chrome OS has a more functional desktop than GNOME.

    Leave a comment:

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