XMir-Based Xubuntu Images Now Available

[Awesomeness]

Like what?

I already answered that question: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...870#post348870

[Ericg]

I think the XMir project has many benefits for users that everyone seems to not notice.....

XWayland: Only applications can run. User must be using DE running natively under Wayland with applications for all non-wayland-native-DE (Xorg apps and pre-wayland gnome2, kde4, E17 apps, ect) can only be run as single applications.

IE: if your DE of choice hasn't been converted to Wayland native yet, then too bad.

XMir: DE and applications can run (later application only mode will be supported). User can be running DE running natively under Mir or XMir for all DE's and applications.

IE: Users have more choices. Use a Mir native DE or not, your choice.


I see this as a HUGE advantage and great for users to assist with the post-Xorg times transitions that Wayland doesn't support. Its USE NATIVE or too bad with Wayland. There's a choice with Mir/XMir.

(this user will not debate grammar or the use of the English language)

There's nothing preventing XWayland from running a full DE other than the fact that you wouldnt WANT to. If you are running Wayland but EVERYTHING is being shoved through Xwayland...just use X. XWayland is there so specific apps can continue to work, not so that Developers can lie about what display server they are actually running.

[GreatEmerald]

I thought XFCE was going with Wayland?

IIRC they haven't stated either way. Xfce has issues in regards to the toolkits: their apps at the moment are largely GTK2, and porting everything to GTK3 yields to poorer results (more resources consumed), so they want to stay on GTK2 as long as it's feasible. And GTK2 means Xorg.

LXDE, on the other hand, is porting things to Qt, and that means Wayland.

I think the XMir project has many benefits for users that everyone seems to not notice.....

XWayland: Only applications can run. User must be using DE running natively under Wayland with applications for all non-wayland-native-DE (Xorg apps and pre-wayland gnome2, kde4, E17 apps, ect) can only be run as single applications.

IE: if your DE of choice hasn't been converted to Wayland native yet, then too bad.

XMir: DE and applications can run (later application only mode will be supported). User can be running DE running natively under Mir or XMir for all DE's and applications.

IE: Users have more choices. Use a Mir native DE or not, your choice.


I see this as a HUGE advantage and great for users to assist with the post-Xorg times transitions that Wayland doesn't support. Its USE NATIVE or too bad with Wayland. There's a choice with Mir/XMir.

(this user will not debate grammar or the use of the English language)

No. XMir *is* XWayland. The only difference is that Wayland developers realise that running a whole DE on XWayland defeats the purpose of running Wayland to begin with. And Mir developers don't, and advertise running things through XMir, even when there are only disadvantages of doing so.

On Wayland, users have more choices as well. Use a Wayland native DE or use Xorg, your choice.

[Mike Frett]

Congrats

To the guys saying this is pointless: It's not pointless if Xubuntu wishes to remain a member of the Ubuntu family. And yes, it is funny to see people so upset over this and the Xubuntu team is smaller than the Kubuntu team, yet they still managed to do this. So it can't that difficult to implement.

It's just a few Devs afraid of advancement. It's like the old hats telling newbies to use the CLI, it's just wrong if a perfectly usable GUI is available for the new kid. I for one applaud the Xubuntu team. There is no reason to be afraid, it's not like XFCE itself is doing, you can continue using GTK+ and Xorg on some other Distro.

TL;DR: Stop being afraid of advancement.

[GreatEmerald]

To the guys saying this is pointless: It's not pointless if Xubuntu wishes to remain a member of the Ubuntu family. And yes, it is funny to see people so upset over this and the Xubuntu team is smaller than the Kubuntu team, yet they still managed to do this. So it can't that difficult to implement.

It's just a few Devs afraid of advancement. It's like the old hats telling newbies to use the CLI, it's just wrong if a perfectly usable GUI is available for the new kid. I for one applaud the Xubuntu team. There is no reason to be afraid, it's not like XFCE itself is doing, you can continue using GTK+ and Xorg on some other Distro.

TL;DR: Stop being afraid of advancement.

Please tell me how using a display server within the compatibility module of another display server for all tasks is advancement over just using one display server natively. And of course it's not difficult to implement ? it's just pointless to do so. If Xubuntu undermines the very reason why people use it, then why even remain a member of the Ubuntu family? Yes, you can use Xfce on another distribution, and that's what I will be recommending if Xubuntu switches to XMir. But the Xubuntu maintainers might as well not bother with it any more, or rebase off Debian, if the suggestion is to use another distribution.

[LinuxGamer]

To the guys saying this is pointless: It's not pointless if Xubuntu wishes to remain a member of the Ubuntu family. And yes, it is funny to see people so upset over this and the Xubuntu team is smaller than the Kubuntu team, yet they still managed to do this. So it can't that difficult to implement.

It's just a few Devs afraid of advancement. It's like the old hats telling newbies to use the CLI, it's just wrong if a perfectly usable GUI is available for the new kid. I for one applaud the Xubuntu team. There is no reason to be afraid, it's not like XFCE itself is doing, you can continue using GTK+ and Xorg on some other Distro.

TL;DR: Stop being afraid of advancement.

who wants to use a Patched up Xwayland? to run DE any ways? and the guy from Ohio who did this may as well called it Lindsay Lohan OS

[bwat47]

Xubuntu using Mir instead of Wayland?

No thanks, I'll stop using Xubuntu then.

You are being ridiculous.

It would be impossible to xubuntu to use wayland, Because xubuntu uses XFCE, and XFCE does not support wayland and will not support wayland in the foreseeable future (they have limited developer power, still use GTK2, and XFWM doesn't even have opengl compositing, it would take a ton of work for XFCE to natively support wayland or mir).

The xubuntu team is also small, so it would be advantageous to them to stay as close to ubuntu as possible.

[bwat47]

To the guys saying this is pointless: It's not pointless if Xubuntu wishes to remain a member of the Ubuntu family. And yes, it is funny to see people so upset over this and the Xubuntu team is smaller than the Kubuntu team, yet they still managed to do this. So it can't that difficult to implement.

It's just a few Devs afraid of advancement. It's like the old hats telling newbies to use the CLI, it's just wrong if a perfectly usable GUI is available for the new kid. I for one applaud the Xubuntu team. There is no reason to be afraid, it's not like XFCE itself is doing, you can continue using GTK+ and Xorg on some other Distro.

TL;DR: Stop being afraid of advancement.

I agree. People on both sides of this need to stop flaming each other, its getting ridiculous.

[bwat47]

Please tell me how using a display server within the compatibility module of another display server for all tasks is advancement over just using one display server natively. And of course it's not difficult to implement – it's just pointless to do so. If Xubuntu undermines the very reason why people use it, then why even remain a member of the Ubuntu family? Yes, you can use Xfce on another distribution, and that's what I will be recommending if Xubuntu switches to XMir. But the Xubuntu maintainers might as well not bother with it any more, or rebase off Debian, if the suggestion is to use another distribution.

It is not pointless, as I mentioned before it manages to solve the long running issue of video-tearing in XFCE. And performance in Xmir should end up being almost identical to performance with just X (it might not be right now, because its not finished yet): http://blog.cooperteam.net/2013/07/x...rformance.html. It is not completely pointless, and it would not "ruin" the distro.

The Xmir compatibility layer should also be maintained by canonical for quite a while (afaik they plan to run unity 7 on it for 13.10 and 14.04, and 14.04 is an LTS). If xubuntu also decides to use xmir, then that means they will be running on the "supported" configuration and should mean less maintenance burden for the xubuntu team. XFCE is also far simpler than unity, so if canonical manages to get unity running well on xmir, then XFCE should surely run fine on it as well. From the standpoint of the xubuntu developers I can see how this would be appealing.

It should also be noted that they are EVALUATING xmir, they have not decided to go with it yet. If xmir turns out to have too many problems, then they will continue to use just X, and that is a sensible approach. Its entirely possible that xubuntu 13.10 will still be using just X, this is just a test ISO. Personally I hope they use xmir, or at least have an optional xmir session, but I trust the xubuntu devs will make the most sensible decision.

Its ridiculous seeing people flaming the xubuntu team for taking a pragmatic approach to this, by actually testing and evaluating it to see if it will work well for them or not. People need to get over themselves.

[TheOne]

Boys and girls, what's with the noise. It seems like Xubuntu, an Ubuntu derivative, is going to evaluate whether the solution proposed by the parent distribution (Ubuntu) is technically viable at this point. This seems like a civil way to go about things, and more inline with Linus' approach of using what works, than with being opinionated or politically driven.

Having said that, I still think Mir is a bad idea, but then again, that's an opinion, not a technical fact.

Couldn't be better said.

At least the Xubuntu team is giving XMir a test drive instead of getting involved in pointless discussions.