Canonical Is Hiring More Mir, Unity Developers

[TheBlackCat]

How dare they make Mir when Wayland was already around.

How dare they make PulseAudio when Alsa was already around.

How dare they make Gnome, when KDE was already around.

First, just because they can do something, doesn't mean they should.

Second, just because they can do something doesn't mean everyone has to agree. They have their right to make their choices, but we also have a right to judge them based on those choices. Or do you really think that neither Gnome nor PulseAudio devs got any criticism?

Third, there is a big difference between something like a sound API or desktop environment, where applications written for different ones can happily co-exist, and a display server or protocal, where they can't. This is much less like making a new PulseAudio or new Gnome and much more like making a new Linux kernel, where libraries and applications written for the Linux kernel will not necessarily run at all on the Ubuntu kernel and vice versus.

[phoen1x]

Future needs one display system to all devices and that is Mir. Until Mir is open source then everything is fine. X.Org is stoneage and should be terminated.

I am glad they are using pure c++ and Cmake system.

LOL. Xorg still does whatever u need, so why all the hate?

[mrugiero]

server side buffer allocation

And that was the last feature I didn't know if Wayland offered.

[dh04000]

First, just because they can do something, doesn't mean they should.

Your talking to a research scientist. This very concept is frankly offensive to people like me.

[TheBlackCat]

Your talking to a research scientist. This very concept is frankly offensive to people like me.

I am a research scientist, too, and the fact that there are scientists like you who feel that way scares the hell out of me. In fact I was under the apparently naive impression that this was a strawman used by anti-science types to attack scientists. I guess we still need animal and human research ethical review boards after all.

[jrch2k8]

ok here is the reason fragmentation is bad in such an important part of the stack

1.) Neither Qt5 nor GTK+ 3.X nor EFL libraries will support Mir, this translate in no KDE/GNOME/EFL application will work with Mir in Ubuntu for a while unless canonical take the task to support out of tree all Toolkits, in simple english gimp, thunderbird,brasero, calligra, chromium,libreoffice,etc in wayland no problem but in ubuntu say bye bye unless canonical port them themselves
2.) Mesa will not support Mir officially[same reason as KDE], so there is a big chance in the future canonical will have to fork mesa and maintain it themselves
3.) Nor intel nor AMD nor nouveau will have Mir in consideration when making changes to their drivers beyond X11 and wayland, so if breaks feel free to fork canonical
4.) Wine and SDL will not support Mir either, so say bye bye to games unless canonical port them themselves
5.) RedHat will support wayland exclusively meaning all workstation apps like Catia or Oracle or Maya, etc won't work on ubuntu unless canonical make deals themselves and port them
6.) and i can keep all day long

so canonical with Mir have 2 choices, they either break all relation with linux native apps and make their own API for their store[the mac way] or they tackle the massively huge task of porting every app in their repos and PPA to Mir, as a possible 3rd choice could be ubuntu desktop will start Xmir by default and keep until apps stop supporting X11 and Mir native apps[having all the goodies] will only exist for mobile versions but then come the question, why Mir in the desktop then? i mean if the entire desktop will stay using legacy X11 what is the point of keep Mir in ubuntu X86? since Qt5 works on both you can't support wayland on x86 and Mir in mobile and save you millions of LOC having the same result?

[mrugiero]

1.) Neither Qt5 nor GTK+ 3.X nor EFL libraries will support Mir, this translate in no KDE/GNOME/EFL application will work with Mir in Ubuntu for a while unless canonical take the task to support out of tree all Toolkits, in simple english gimp, thunderbird,brasero, calligra, chromium,libreoffice,etc in wayland no problem but in ubuntu say bye bye unless canonical port them themselves

I believe Canonical said they were going to port Qt themselves. Don't remember the version, though.

[jrch2k8]

I believe Canonical said they were going to port Qt themselves. Don't remember the version, though.

well they have some skeleton code[kinda partially work] of a lighthouse module for Qt5.0[for 5.1 and 5.2 will need many adjustments tho], as for GTK or SDL2 or EFL or Wine i can't find anything which led me to think ubuntu will have QML applications only through ubuntu store

[seb24]

ok here is the reason fragmentation is bad in such an important part of the stack

1.) Neither Qt5 nor GTK+ 3.X nor EFL libraries will support Mir, this translate in no KDE/GNOME/EFL application will work with Mir in Ubuntu for a while unless canonical take the task to support out of tree all Toolkits, in simple english gimp, thunderbird,brasero, calligra, chromium,libreoffice,etc in wayland no problem but in ubuntu say bye bye unless canonical port them themselves
2.) Mesa will not support Mir officially[same reason as KDE], so there is a big chance in the future canonical will have to fork mesa and maintain it themselves
3.) Nor intel nor AMD nor nouveau will have Mir in consideration when making changes to their drivers beyond X11 and wayland, so if breaks feel free to fork canonical
4.) Wine and SDL will not support Mir either, so say bye bye to games unless canonical port them themselves
5.) RedHat will support wayland exclusively meaning all workstation apps like Catia or Oracle or Maya, etc won't work on ubuntu unless canonical make deals themselves and port them
6.) and i can keep all day long

so canonical with Mir have 2 choices, they either break all relation with linux native apps and make their own API for their store[the mac way] or they tackle the massively huge task of porting every app in their repos and PPA to Mir, as a possible 3rd choice could be ubuntu desktop will start Xmir by default and keep until apps stop supporting X11 and Mir native apps[having all the goodies] will only exist for mobile versions but then come the question, why Mir in the desktop then? i mean if the entire desktop will stay using legacy X11 what is the point of keep Mir in ubuntu X86? since Qt5 works on both you can't support wayland on x86 and Mir in mobile and save you millions of LOC having the same result?

1 ) Fail : Canonical work in a Qt and Gtk backend
2 ) They have some patch for mesa
3 ) Nouveau, Intel and Radeon work yet on Mir and Wayland
4 ) Lol they support it because The dev of SDL work for Valve and Valve support Ubuntu
5 ) bullshit again
6 ) Yes saying nothing interesting

Reason to have more than one project :
1 ) No more application depending directly for a display server.
2 ) If a project fail we have another option
3 ) People can choose what is better depending what are their needs
To resume : all the avantage offer by the free software phylosophy... Not from the proprietary philosophy...

[mrugiero]

1 ) Fail : Canonical work in a Qt and Gtk backend

Fail? Point it out. It clearly says 'except they do the porting themselves.

2 ) They have some patch for mesa

Same, mesa will not support Mir. Mesa is upstream project, not Canonical in-house patches.

3 ) Nouveau, Intel and Radeon work yet on Mir and Wayland

This all depends on mesa working, and again, local patches to mesa are not upstream support. This means, breakages that Canonical will have to fix.

4 ) Lol they support it because The dev of SDL work for Valve and Valve support Ubuntu

That's a hard assumption. For a start, there's no warrant this dev will keep being the maintainer of SDL, specially having another full-time job. Note Valve never took a position in the Wayland-Mir conflict. As far as anyone outside Valve knows, they'll stick to X.

5 ) bullshit again

Can you point any link saying Red Hat is thinking about supporting Mir? Wayland sounds really likely (and if you take the freedom of assuming Valve is onboard of Mir when they didn't even paid their maintainer, and then make SDL maintainer port it to Mir, I can take my own to assume Red Hat will support Wayland, which is a far simpler one), since the one that came with the idea of Wayland is their employee.

1 ) No more application depending directly for a display server.

That's not a reason, that's a fix. We have to support several display servers, thus we don't target them directly.

2 ) If a project fail we have another option

If a project fails, we can fork it and fix it. That's free software about, after all.

3 ) People can choose what is better depending what are their needs

For this, Mir should actually cover needs not covered by Wayland.