Originally posted by oleid
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Xfce, LXDE, & GNOME Are Running On Ubuntu XMir
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Originally posted by mrugiero View PostAside from the idea and the algorithms involved, is there any Wayland code in Mir?
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Originally posted by k1l_ View PostWay back noone thought you will need a GUI Installer that could be used by your grandma. Ubuntu solved that.
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Originally posted by chrisb View PostDevelopers tend to be inquisitive and interested in software; I had assumed that anyone commenting on Wayland/Mir would have at least tried them both out. It is hardly possible to comment on technical solutions without having spent some time investigating the options.
That's a shame. If no one has spent any time looking into it, then no one is going to be able to form a rational opinion about it. And without that, all we are left with is emotions, personal bias and politics.
Note that 60% of the GNOME modules work under Wayland. None of them work under Mir. Probably it works on some Mir developers machine or something, but kind of hard to collaborate.
Like I said, cross-pollination of ideas is a good thing. Ubuntu is the top Linux desktop distribution right now, and they got there by solving some problems that the others didn't. It's worth a small amount of effort to keep an eye on what they are doing. In general, it is a good idea to expose yourself to as many ideas and concepts as possible to gain an understanding of what is possible, and what is desirable. Isn't learning from others one of the main benefits of open source?
Anyway, suggest to quit playing the emotional card. Mir is not an option and that is not due to Canonical hate.
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Originally posted by chrisb View PostDevelopers tend to be inquisitive and interested in software; I had assumed that anyone commenting on Wayland/Mir would have at least tried them both out. It is hardly possible to comment on technical solutions without having spent some time investigating the options.
Pro-tip: there aren't real tech differences aside from the buffers being allocated server-side and a different API. Not really a programmer's wet dream, comparing with Wayland at least.
That's a shame. If no one has spent any time looking into it, then no one is going to be able to form a rational opinion about it. And without that, all we are left with is emotions, personal bias and politics.
Like I said, cross-pollination of ideas is a good thing. Ubuntu is the top Linux desktop distribution right now, and they got there by solving some problems that the others didn't. It's worth a small amount of effort to keep an eye on what they are doing. In general, it is a good idea to expose yourself to as many ideas and concepts as possible to gain an understanding of what is possible, and what is desirable. Isn't learning from others one of the main benefits of open source?
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Originally posted by dee. View Posta large part of Mir is copied straight from Wayland
Originally posted by seb24 View PostWe have 3 or more different Kernel, We have 3 or more sound server, we have X different file system, We have X different package manager....
OSx or Windows have more than 1 DE ? bad comparison. Or you suggest we need to do the same with Linux ? 1 Kernel, 1 File system, 1 DE, 1XServer, 1 Company ?
I love when people from open source community trying to discredit Canonical explaining that the better way to do is the way of proprietary solutions... Big Facepalm.
When you suggest that a company/people can't do it's own project you fail totaly. Open Source encourage fork, new projects, creativity and all people to do new stuffs... If you rant against this point for some idiot reason you are against the basis of the Open Source rules.
Originally posted by seb24 View PostI read perfectly and is more absurd think I have ever see.
If red-hat do the same, all the people say ... nothing because lot of people don't do the same mental storm when Red-Hat take decisions. In Fact Google do, Mozilla do and no one cry about the end of the open source world...
You don't respond to my first question :
- So you consider BSD, PulseAudio, SystemD and all File system like absurd projects and horrible business decision ?
Or from some magic trick this rules apply only on Canonical Display Server ?
Your example of proprietary system is only here to demonstrate that you are totally wrong... But the worst, you don't realize how...
About Red Hat, the proof charge is on you, come up with an example of a disruptive Red Hat decision and I'll tell you what I think about it.
Originally posted by seb24 View Post3 - Yes big communication mistake here. But we can read a lot of "incorrect statement" from the community against Ubuntu project from long time ago...
4 - No they speaking about other possibility than wayland from one year I think, staying officially with Wayland. And Canonical do what they want. As red-Hat can do it the same. Is business decision.
In fact I can understand some people don't like the method but the Mir project stay a free software project and we have to judge it from a technical point of view, not from some obscur and absurd ideology.
About the technical points, the thing is, when you are the one opposing consensus, you are the one who should give technical arguments for that. Prior to Mir, there was agreement between most of the graphical developers on the Linux world that Wayland was the way to go. For the time being, the only technical argument was 'server allocated buffers', which had no detailed explanation of why they consider it better. The ones who weren't on the Wayland's wagon at that time was mostly interested in network transparency, and that's not solved by Mir either. On all the other things, a Mir dev admitted Mir and Wayland are supposed to behave the same, or Wayland is flexible enough to give it a shot.
Originally posted by seb24 View PostMaking technical decision is not a "toxic" decision. Ranting again project, people and company just for pleasure is it.
And in your link you have another example that Canonical in 2010 was looking for different solution than Wayland.
1. Asked if what they considered missing was going to be part of Wayland. This is standard procedure when deciding to implement something on the open community, you inform yourself about existing projects with common goals, and check if there is any real difference with what you want to do. As a Mir's dev said on a G+ note (I'll look for it if you don't believe me, but I'd have to check a big mail list to do so), most differences were actually things Wayland does have now. Only, they didn't ask if they were planned. They just wasn't there a year ago, when they decided to do their own.
2. If there is any difference between what you want and what is done or being done, you either justify (just to know what you are doing) why you think the way to go is other, or you accept the other people's point of view. Both imply in practice the same procedure, which is a careful analysis of the reasons that lead to that difference. You might even convince the other and avoid a fork if the current plan can't meet your needs.
3. If the above lead to negative answers, you do your own.
If that's not done, then, by basic logic, your decision wasn't really technical, because you didn't even know what technical differences were between what you did and what the others offered you.
If it's not clear enough, I'll put it in other words. If you are diverging because of technical reasons, there must be technical differences between what you want and what there is. Right now, the only one Canonical did named was the allocation on the server side. Which I'm not sure if Wayland is even unable to do, so there might still be ZERO differences in the tech side. And nobody likes, and less the ones who does it for free, having to port something or risking the project itself (Ubuntu is still the majority of the consumers desktop) with no technical reasons to do so other than 'we didn't feel like talking'.
Originally posted by a user View Postno! it was the only alternative while many (not all!!!) agreed we need something new over X. regarding wayland itself many if not most people were skeptical at the beginning. in fact there were many voices say "why waste resources into wayland... we do not need another display server".
forgot that?
In fact, most of Wayland detractors WANT NETWORK TANSPARENCY, the same you do. Does Mir solve this? I bet it doesn't, or it would have been one of the technical arguments.
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Originally posted by bkor View PostEhhr?!? Why would anyone do that again? Your distribution is not going to use it, why spend time on it?
Originally posted by bkor View PostAt the moment I haven't seen anyone outside of Ubuntu looking into Mir.
Originally posted by bkor View PostA lot of things *could* be done, but I just don't get why anyone would.
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