Mir's GPLv3 License Is Now Raising Concerns

[chithanh]

Mesa uses MIT license, not GPL. And MIT license just screams "I don't care", so nobody cares. But GPL is supposed to protect open source from this kind of crap.

No, dual-licensing is and was always ok. GPL only ensures that all code will always be available under a free license. Whether the copyright holder makes it also available under additional (proprietary or not) licenses was never a concern.

[kUrb1a]

Yes, of course, when we're worried about privacy, we want the OS that makes deals with 3rd parties to send them everything you type in your app launcher...

On another note: good grief man, are you so delusional, so blindly following the shuttleworth dogma that you seriously present Ubuntu as "only one with a chance" from all the smartphone OS'es? Seriously? Come on, you gotta be trolling...

Sailfish and Tizen are both going to run Ubuntu phone to the ground. Part of the reason is that both of them support running Android apps and can thus leverage the existing app ecosystem, while Ubuntu is being silly and not supporting Android apps. When devs have to choose "hmm, should I develop an app for Ubuntu, or for Android/Tizen/Sailfish", I think the answer is going to be obvious...

I love how Tizen and Sailfish always end up being the main argument of Canonicals undoind even though pretty much they are all the same.

Tizen is collaborative project of Intel and Samsung so that they can utilize their products without restrictions. Tizen will most probably only run on Samsung devices and Intel devices that they approve.So voting and cheering for those two is not the best thing to do.Lets not forget disagreements that Intel and Samsung had over some components of OS itself.But funniest thing about this comment is that Intel with Nokia tried to do the same thing over and over with Meego and failed as much Samsung did with Bada OS (remember that ? ).

Sailfish on the other hand is a nice mobile OS that uses UX that they specifically want and can be changed only in the context of their SDK. So little bit restrictive from that side than Ubuntu but better in terms of licensing.

I like how people like to mention that particular OS they like runs Android aps like it's some encompasing all good two shoes thing.It's hypocritical of people to like Android aps but then again have mixed feeling calling Android Linux OS and then hatting Ubuntu for taking advantage of available Android drivers to run OSS apps as they should on their respective hardwares. Fuck Ubuntu ,they are running OpenSource OS on top off technology that will give us headaches in terms of licensing in short run but better adoption and less headaches in long run.Give us good OSS QT,HTML,Javascript OS without restrictions of hardware itself so that we can run aps in their all glory on every form factor imaginable.

[nightmarex]

OMG they want to make money! You said the dirty word: money! Stallman isn't interested in making money and neither should you. You should selflessly sacrifice for the good of humanity, or even better, for the good of free software. When you will die you will go to a cloud where everything they run is linux based! And there will be no microsoft or stupid management.

Not that I'm responding to your idiocy I just want others who read this to not think "Stallman isn't interested in money". His philosophy is that you can buy a program (in a fashion), but it should be open, I mean it makes sense right you bought something? Games/programs should be paid for in a kickstarter fashion (by donation) then released free and open, I mean it is paid for right? Stallman isn't some raving loon (usually), he is what keeps up from being fed like sheep to the wolves of a really bad situation.

[spacetoilet]

I love how Tizen and Sailfish always end up being the main argument of Canonicals undoind even though pretty much they are all the same.

Tizen is collaborative project of Intel and Samsung so that they can utilize their products without restrictions. Tizen will most probably only run on Samsung devices and Intel devices that they approve.So voting and cheering for those two is not the best thing to do.Lets not forget disagreements that Intel and Samsung had over some components of OS itself.But funniest thing about this comment is that Intel with Nokia tried to do the same thing over and over with Meego and failed as much Samsung did with Bada OS (remember that ? ).

Sailfish on the other hand is a nice mobile OS that uses UX that they specifically want and can be changed only in the context of their SDK. So little bit restrictive from that side than Ubuntu but better in terms of licensing.

I like how people like to mention that particular OS they like runs Android aps like it's some encompasing all good two shoes thing.It's hypocritical of people to like Android aps but then again have mixed feeling calling Android Linux OS and then hatting Ubuntu for taking advantage of available Android drivers to run OSS apps as they should on their respective hardwares. Fuck Ubuntu ,they are running OpenSource OS on top off technology that will give us headaches in terms of licensing in short run but better adoption and less headaches in long run.Give us good OSS QT,HTML,Javascript OS without restrictions of hardware itself so that we can run aps in their all glory on every form factor imaginable.

Tizen is part of the Linux Foundation so i bet it will work on most any Chip set and far as i know Sailfish and Tizen are going to run Wayland if any will Kill Ubuntu's Windows8/Android OS it will be FireFox OS

[kUrb1a]

Tizen is part of the Linux Foundation so i bet it will work on most any Chip set and far as i know Sailfish and Tizen are going to run Wayland if any will Kill Ubuntu's Windows8/Android OS it will be FireFox OS

Being part of Linux Foundation only means that they ather to some ethical rules and guidelines not market rules. I'm not sure what makes this particular companies memebers of L.F. but sure as hell is not cozy felling around their hearths.Remember Meego is also part of that same foundation and it didn't make it any more available or better.That only tells you how little voice this foundation has on big companies.

Secondly, making broad statement "It will run Wayland" like it's some magical unicorn does not make it more portable,collaborative nor does it make more powerful and feature rich on other platforms.One of the biggest reasons behind Mir was the for this reason.I'm not calling it technologically superior I'm just saying that the reason was market adoption and making most out of specific hardware.You can say whatever you want about Mir but I doubt it was built to be performance hog.

And yes I really like Firefox OS,I'm getting my hand on as soon as I can get.It's really step into right direction.

[dee.]

I love how Tizen and Sailfish always end up being the main argument of Canonicals undoind even though pretty much they are all the same.

No, the main argument for Canonical's undoing is all the stupid crap they're doing.

Tizen is collaborative project of Intel and Samsung so that they can utilize their products without restrictions. Tizen will most probably only run on Samsung devices and Intel devices that they approve.So voting and cheering for those two is not the best thing to do.Lets not forget disagreements that Intel and Samsung had over some components of OS itself.But funniest thing about this comment is that Intel with Nokia tried to do the same thing over and over with Meego and failed as much Samsung did with Bada OS (remember that ? ).

Tizen is open source OS which runs on both ARM and intel platforms, including smartphones, tablets, laptops and possibly even desktop computers. There's no reason to believe that you couldn't install Tizen on whatever device you wish, seeing as it's composed entirely of open source components.

Sailfish on the other hand is a nice mobile OS that uses UX that they specifically want and can be changed only in the context of their SDK. So little bit restrictive from that side than Ubuntu but better in terms of licensing.

Sailfish can run with an open source UI.

I like how people like to mention that particular OS they like runs Android aps like it's some encompasing all good two shoes thing.It's hypocritical of people to like Android aps but then again have mixed feeling calling Android Linux OS and then hatting Ubuntu for taking advantage of available Android drivers to run OSS apps as they should on their respective hardwares. Fuck Ubuntu ,they are running OpenSource OS on top off technology that will give us headaches in terms of licensing in short run but better adoption and less headaches in long run.Give us good OSS QT,HTML,Javascript OS without restrictions of hardware itself so that we can run aps in their all glory on every form factor imaginable.

Uh what? You're not making a bit of sense, you're comparing apples to oranges. No one has said that being able to use android drivers is bad. There's nothing wrong with being able to use android drivers - incidentally, the only reason Mir can use Android drivers is because Canonical swiped the necessary code from Sailfish... which is using it to run Wayland on Android drivers, so Sailfish and Tizen can both utilize Android drivers if so needed.

Being able to run Android apps is a good thing, because there's already an extensive library of existing Android apps. Developers - particularly those that don't have the resources to port their app to a zillion platforms - are going to be faced with a choice: do they develop their app for Ubuntu, so that it only runs on Ubuntu, or do they develop for Android, in which case it can be ran on Android, Tizen and Sailfish. Which do you think the devs will choose if they want to maximize their market penetration?

For that matter, both Tizen and Sailfish will be able to run HTML5 apps as well, as will Firefox OS.

There's no good reason why Canonical would have to develop Mir. Both Tizen and Sailfish are going to run Wayland, which just shows it is entirely suitable for the purposes of a mobile OS, as well as a desktop OS. Wayland is a protocol, which means that all the stupid speculation about "performance" is already moot - Canonical could well develop their own Wayland compositor and tweak its performance however they wish, and still retain control of the code and licensing. The only conceivable reason for Mir is that Canonical wants to build a wall between themselves and other Linux systems. They want to reduce compatibility in order to gain competitive advantage, and that's a really shitty thing to do.

[V10lator]

Secondly, making broad statement "It will run Wayland" like it's some magical unicorn does not make it more portable,collaborative nor does it make more powerful and feature rich on other platforms.One of the biggest reasons behind Mir was the for this reason.

You have been successfully trolled by Canonical!

I'm not calling it technologically superior I'm just saying that the reason was market adoption and making most out of specific hardware.

Good, now guess why Wayland was born.

You can say whatever you want about Mir but I doubt it was built to be performance hog.

Same goes for Wayland. And Wayland devs are far more experienced with graphic stacks than Canonical employees. Or why do you think everything good on Mir (xMir and android driver support to name two) has been stolen from Wayland?

[kUrb1a]

Tizen is open source OS which runs on both ARM and intel platforms, including smartphones, tablets, laptops and possibly even desktop computers. There's no reason to believe that you couldn't install Tizen on whatever device you wish, seeing as it's composed entirely of open source components.[/QUOTE]

My problem here is that Tizen although developed by big companies with the same or similar reasons is not scrutinized as Canonical.What makes you so sure that you are going to have more freedom on particular device that is developed by intel and samsung that are not going to available on uphone.People can't stop talking about u-fcking-phone but fuck if I heard a peep about Tizen.

Only time I hear it is in the context of Canonical or Samsung budging in on Androids turf over theirs back.Let me tell you something,core components of Tizen are OSS but that is as far as you are going to get with this OS.You are sadly mistaken that you are going to have little bit more influence on this OS than on uPhone or Sailfish.Which in itself not so bad.Have fun making distro for that device when vision for your phone doesnt match with theirs.
They are developing UX that they feel is best for them.That is fucking PERIOD.In that regard they are all the same.You are going to have to adhere to their vision.This is nature of mobile platform.On desktop you can escape this but not on phone !

Chances are if you are going to put something different instead of that particular OS you are going to have to change everything from the top layer and that means fragmentation.Which means you get Android but with Wayland who can't run on all devices because all drivers that are going to bee available are proprietary (Tegra and everything else ) . People are running on real delusion here that Wayland is magical unicorn that will bring and I'm not fcking kidding here :

1)
-OSS drivers for all those devices on marker when only OSS driver is for Mali barely functional,..if you think your radeon card is overheating on your laptop let me tell you, things don't get easier on hardware that is closely encased in plastic put in your pocket all day and used all day
-nvidia has newer ever shown interest to support any OSS driver and Samsung never ever showed any interest doing that also ( good luck having fun and making distros for phones )

2)
-bring OSS drivers to desktop (I'm talking about more commitment from other manufacturers,...not including Intel)
(at lest those that are missing)
-bring proprietary drivers on Wayland and expect them to run perfectly on first day,..because of course Microsoft or Apple newer had this problem when switching core component on their respective OS ( Vista anyone ?! ),...after all it's just EGL to support everything else doesn't matter

3)
-and of course encompass everything mentioned into one furry ball that is single OS even though every component outside Wayland from PulseAudio to SDK are lacking on one regard or other,...remember Valve is supposed to be saviour of Linux desktop and ended up having to develop SDL to fit atlest some of their needs,...are everybody here so delusional to think that al those components are going to mature on platforms that:

a) sailfish,firefox OS - UX and that's it,...fuck every other component down there,...just shout at loud that you support wayland and you are done,...drivers included

b)tizen - closed drivers, but ok you get to say something to samsung and they might get mercy on you soul and make it available

I really hate that everybody today are so easily stuped by this that all you have to say is "Wayland" and fuck you are peoples favorite.
I just want people to be appreciative of some things that Canonical is doing and by that I mean in market adoption.

I'm not calling it technologically superior I'm just saying that the reason was market adoption and making most out of specific hardware.
Good, now guess why Wayland was born.

No doubt but without drivers you are having best car with train wheels.It only goes in one direction.

Sailfish on the other hand is a nice mobile OS that uses UX that they specifically want and can be changed only in the context of their SDK. So little bit restrictive from that side than Ubuntu but better in terms of licensing.

Sailfish can run with an open source UI.

So can uphone and firefox os and tizen you just have to strip everything else about it and make a smartphone distro,or just develop something that fits within their vision.Remember all those phones have only one purpose,to make money but to make you cozy enough to not bitch to much.There is really no wrong answer here but people seems to have problem with uphone when there is really no issue here.At lest if we put Mir outside.Even then Mir gives you ability to run on every device with Android drivers and everybody else give you ability to run where intel and samsung tell you to run.I'm not claiming here that they forbid you I'm talking about drivers not being available for Wayland.The purpose here is to have OS that is same inside on every platform and to run it nicely on every platform.

Being able to run Android apps is a good thing, because there's already an extensive library of existing Android apps. Developers - particularly those that don't have the resources to port their app to a zillion platforms - are going to be faced with a choice: do they develop their app for Ubuntu, so that it only runs on Ubuntu, or do they develop for Android, in which case it can be ran on Android, Tizen and Sailfish. Which do you think the devs will choose if they want to maximize their market penetration?

For that matter, both Tizen and Sailfish will be able to run HTML5 apps as well, as will Firefox OS.

Hmmm,...so we have here a bunch of OS-s and we want android apps running on virtual machine.Good point, I was hopping to have native apps that are free to run on any platform on Linux as their platforms see fit.But ok,that is just you. Just to make point here.It's ok to run Android PROPRIETARY drivers "nothing wrong there" and it's ok to run Android apps on android dalvik machine on top of another platform.Good greef what a way to sell FULL ( PURE ) linux OS to masses on every platform.And YOU are saying it's not ok to have Mir ? So reasons to port apps from Android are ?????!!!

There's no good reason why Canonical would have to develop Mir. Both Tizen and Sailfish are going to run Wayland, which just shows it is entirely suitable for the purposes of a mobile OS, as well as a desktop OS. Wayland is a protocol, which means that all the stupid speculation about "performance" is already moot - Canonical could well develop their own Wayland compositor and tweak its performance however they wish, and still retain control of the code and licensing. The only conceivable reason for Mir is that Canonical wants to build a wall between themselves and other Linux systems. They want to reduce compatibility in order to gain competitive advantage, and that's a really shitty thing to do.

People here are mouthful how Wayland is superior although it's been built to be as simple as possible and Mir is just a copy although not really.I was hopping to get a dialog in which way is it better and why.Usually everybody get defensive and just say : "ubuntu developed mir in secret","wayland developers told mir developers that is not smart to have things done on ... fit missing part" and thing get moot.You really cant blame Canonical for choosing GPLv3 ti limit to some degree fragmentation.I think there was good discussion on this subject between developers on linux community council and there is good video from Stallman why is it important to have it.So it really is bitchy to moan about something that Linux Foundation approves.I'm not so sure about CLA.From this forum nobody ever outlined benefits and disadvantages of this thing so I assume it's a bad thing because fuck me I'm not ready some document on their site.

You have been successfully trolled by Canonical!

Doubt it.From reading their devel-list I'm getting a feeling that they want cooperation but don't want religious war.I'm cynical person by nature and I usually don't take sides but I am developing an app I'm hoping to market.If I was to choose where should I release it first I would say uPhone maybe Firefox OS but since it doesn't do native apps ( everything is a web browser ) maybe not at first and Tizen well fuck if I'm releasing it to uphone I'm releasing it on there and consequently on sailfish.

Well, I think that's an altogether inaccurate and unfair characterization.
Canonical has always been open to working with "the rest of the free
software community"; what Canonical has not been willing to do is blindly
follow where certain self-appointed "upstreams" would lead, when that
conflicts with the business's goals. Wayland was evaluated, and found not
to be suitable as a basis for Unity (as has been discussed elsewhere) -
thus, Wayland is not an upstream of Canonical (nor, TTBOMK, of any other
existing distros at the moment). Canonical has made a decision to implement
its own display server / compositor, in the form of Mir, and as expressed in
this thread is open to working with developers from other desktops to see
whether Mir can meet their needs as well.

The KWin maintainer wasted no time after Mir was announced to make it clear
that he wanted no part of it. I think that's unfortunate, but I also don't
think that says anything about *Canonical's* willingness to work with others
in the free software community. -- Steve Langasek

[kUrb1a]

I forgot to comment this:

You can say whatever you want about Mir but I doubt it was built to be performance hog.
Same goes for Wayland. And Wayland devs are far more experienced with graphic stacks than Canonical employees. Or why do you think everything good on Mir (xMir and android driver support to name two) has been stolen from Wayland?

I never questioned that Mir or Wayland are bad technologies but in open source world things usually don't go the way of this is better and this is not.Plan 9 is (was) better but Linux was good enough so we stick with it.If everything was stolen from Wayland how is Mir than worse.They intentionally fucked it up ? If something has open source license how can you steal something if it explicitly tells you that you can use it to suite your purposes ? Especially if the same new software was created to make it available to do so the same.

And I don't defend Mir or Canonical I'm just not a childish man to judge something that is jet to come be.You are making juvenile comments here.

[RahulSundaram]

No, dual-licensing is and was always ok. GPL only ensures that all code will always be available under a free license. Whether the copyright holder makes it also available under additional (proprietary or not) licenses was never a concern.

That is just not true. Copyright license agreements especially ones that favor a single vendor have been a huge concern for the last several years in open source communities and several forks including LibreOffice were created in part to deal with it. Just a few references:

http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/copyright-assignment

https://lwn.net/Articles/454391/

https://live.gnome.org/CopyrightAssignment