Reasons For Losing Motivation In Wayland

[Nille]

Why you guys don't use opensource, but still post bullshit?..!
PM is *here*, its dynamic pm that is not here. Its not fatal.
AMD: PM - manual state switch (high/low)

Yea, stop talking Bullshit. Even the Low Profile need more Power and the Fan runs Faster as with the Catalyst.

[brosis]

Yea, stop talking Bullshit. Even the Low Profile need more Power and the Fan runs Faster as with the Catalyst.

That wasn't what I called "Bullshit". "Bulltshit" was to make claim "No proprietary drivers - no Wayland". Profile just works over ABIOS and switches between VGA BIOS clocks. Sure way, Catalyst can under and overclock better, knowing TDP, voltages, temperature readings and having access to reclocking. But Low Profile / High Profile still works; its better than nothing. I found out that Profiles don't have huge impact on TDP, rather than actual load; but some systems with inadequate cooling, when paired with wrong/bad ACPI (notebooks, especially HP) can get overheated fast or have much higher battery drain, beside switching being inconvenient. But no way does it prevent running Wayland!

[Temar]

3D: http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1...500792103#r-14

This just confirms what I said.

So Wayland runs perfectly without proprietary drivers. If you set proprietary driver as requirement to Wayland, then its your own opinion.

It's not about being able to run Wayland but about wanting to run Wayland. If one has the choice between a perfectly running system with proprietary drivers (X11) or a medicore system with open source drivers (Wayland), only OSS zealots will choose the latter. Normal people give a shit about their display server, they just want a perfectly running system to do their daily work. If Wayland can't provide that because of the lack of proprietary drivers, then people simply won't use it.

[duby229]

This just confirms what I said.



It's not about being able to run Wayland but about wanting to run Wayland. If one has the choice between a perfectly running system with proprietary drivers (X11) or a medicore system with open source drivers (Wayland), only OSS zealots will choose the latter. Normal people give a shit about their display server, they just want a perfectly running system to do their daily work. If Wayland can't provide that because of the lack of proprietary drivers, then people simply won't use it.

Frankly, you don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about. Calling Catalyst stable is easily one of the most retarded things that can be said. Proprietary drivers are not the panacea that you think they are.

[Temar]

Frankly, you don't have a clue what the hell you are talking about. Calling Catalyst stable is easily one of the most retarded things that can be said. Proprietary drivers are not the panacea that you think they are.

What catalyst lacks in stability, the Nvidia's driver easily makes up for. Also catalyst is quite stable nowadays and - as others in this forum confirmed - the far better choice if you are using a mobile device. It's retarded to think that people will all switch to Wayland just because a new shiny display server is available. People will switch when Wayland is able to offer them at least the same experience as they are used to from X11. You can lie to yourself as much as you want, but normal people don't care about their driver or display server.

[duby229]

What catalyst lacks in stability, the Nvidia's driver easily makes up for. Also catalyst is quite stable nowadays and - as others in this forum confirmed - the far better choice if you are using a mobile device. It's retarded to think that people will all switch to Wayland just because a new shiny display server is available. People will switch when Wayland is able to offer them at least the same experience as they are used to from X11. You can lie to yourself as much as you want, but normal people don't care about their driver or display server.

Your right, normal people don't care about their driver or display server.. They won't know the difference anyway.. What they will notice is the horrible desktop performance, the kernel panics, the rendering glitches, the hibernation bugs, the multimonitor glitches....

The proprietary drivers are -NOT- what you say they are. Catalyst isnt even usable for most people.

EDIT: If you have an ATi card, you go right ahead and install the nvidia driver and see exactly how much it makes up for. Just go ahead and do it.

[MartinN]

bad news

Mir aside, if there's anything that will turn people off from Wayland is buggy, unstable and unusable code. It can't all be about new features, stability/usability matters too. Since it's at 1.0+... there's no reason why it should not be usable and mostly crash-free.

[Temar]

Your right, normal people don't care about their driver or display server.. They won't know the difference anyway.. What they will notice is the horrible desktop performance, the kernel panics, the rendering glitches, the hibernation bugs, the multimonitor glitches....

The proprietary drivers are -NOT- what you say they are. Catalyst isnt even usable for most people.

EDIT: If you have an ATi card, you go right ahead and install the nvidia driver and see exactly how much it makes up for. Just just go ahead and do it.

Actually I have all three GFX systems. My laptop is a Lenovo Thinkpad with Intel graphics, my work computer has an ATI card and my home computer a Nvidia card. It must have been a long time since you last used the catalyst driver. Todays catalyst ist not as stable as the Nvidia driver but it is still far superior to the OSS driver in nearly every way. Open source drivers are a nice thing to have, but people won't start using them just because the sources are available.

[duby229]

Actually I have all three GFX systems. My laptop is a Lenovo Thinkpad with Intel graphics, my work computer has an ATI card and my home computer a Nvidia card. It must have been a long time since you last used the catalyst driver. Todays catalyst ist not as stable as the Nvidia driver but it is still far superior to the OSS driver in nearly every way. Open source drivers are a nice thing to have, but people won't start using them just because the sources are available.

I deal with the catalyst driver regularly. I maintain a network for medical providers. Mostly linux thin clients. I have evaluated catalyst in dozens of scenarios. For my needs the OSS driver is obviously the better choice.

I can't think of a single scenario where guaranteed daily or even hourly kernel panics are "superior in every way". Come on. Lets be realistic here.

EDIT: The OSS drivers have superior desktop performance, hibernation works, I've never seen a kernel panic yet, Multimonitor configurations work great, 3d rendering is accurate and performance has exceeded early expectations.

These are the facts whether you like them or not.

[brosis]

This just confirms what I said.

No it doesn't, it just confirms that you overlook things - the 5750-sb is opensource driver with Vadim optimizations and it outperforms catalyst in several tasks and stays on 80% in others.
Where do your 35% go?

It's not about being able to run Wayland but about wanting to run Wayland. If one has the choice between a perfectly running system with proprietary drivers (X11) or a medicore system with open source drivers (Wayland), only OSS zealots will choose the latter. Normal people give a shit about their display server, they just want a perfectly running system to do their daily work. If Wayland can't provide that because of the lack of proprietary drivers, then people simply won't use it.

You kinda have zero clue - opensource driver provides everything that catalyst provides PLUS support for all new platforms, operating systems and desktop environiments out of the box same day.
And if you start calling me "opensource zealot" I will personally contact Michael to ban you asshat, because just due to me prefering opensource anything does not give you a crap to open your shitty mouth.
Now fuck off.