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Reasons For Losing Motivation In Wayland

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  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
    All Ubuntu derivatives will eventually ship Mir. Desktops like Xfce may run via the X11 compatibility layer (XMir) but they'll ship Mir nonetheless.
    There are plenty of easy to use Linux distributions that are not based on Ubuntu. Don't like Mir? Just switch. It's so easy.
    You don't know that. Kubuntu, for example, is clearly considering not shipping Mir.

    It remains to be seen exactly how complicated it will be to strip out. If it's easy, i bet some won't. If it's baked into the very core of Ubuntu and almost impossible to remove, then you're probably right and it will remain in all derivatives.

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  • timothyja
    replied
    First off it seems two of the bugs where fixed (patches created) right after Darxus sent his email (and one no longer even affected him). The only oustanding issue is the unit tests which isnt really a reason to stop playing with Wayland.

    Second,

    Darxus, a Wayland enthusiast and Phoronix Forums moderator
    Wow. Phoronix has forum moderators, this is the real news in that story. Maybe Michael should write an article about how all the forum moderators lost motivation.
    Last edited by timothyja; 06-12-2013, 11:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by ᘜᕟᗃᒟ View Post
    Well Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Gnome Ubuntu and Manjaro + the communiy releases, Arch, Backtrack, Fedora, Sabayon, Mint linux. Basically anything that is not vanilla Ubuntu.
    Well, I use Xubuntu, actually. But since Ubuntu doesn't use Mir just yet, I don't care.

    Leave a comment:


  • Awesomeness
    replied
    Originally posted by ᘜᕟᗃᒟ View Post
    Well Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Gnome Ubuntu and Manjaro + the communiy releases, Arch, Backtrack, Fedora, Sabayon, Mint linux. Basically anything that is not vanilla Ubuntu.
    All Ubuntu derivatives will eventually ship Mir. Desktops like Xfce may run via the X11 compatibility layer (XMir) but they'll ship Mir nonetheless.
    There are plenty of easy to use Linux distributions that are not based on Ubuntu. Don't like Mir? Just switch. It's so easy.

    Leave a comment:


  • ᘜᕟᗃᒟ
    replied
    Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post
    Then switch to another distro without Mir.
    Well Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Gnome Ubuntu and Manjaro + the communiy releases, Arch, Backtrack, Fedora, Sabayon, Mint linux. Basically anything that is not vanilla Ubuntu.

    Leave a comment:


  • Awesomeness
    replied
    Originally posted by chris200x9 View Post
    Personally I'm losing interest because it only works on the open drivers.
    Wrong. Wayland can load Android GPU drivers ? closed and open ones.

    Originally posted by nomadewolf View Post
    The problem here seems to be more on 3rd party projects than on Wayland itself.
    While it is a pitty that open-source software is constatly subject to this kind of problems, it is the reality, and we should try to further improve the interconections between projects that depend upon another, instead of just giving up.
    Developers of software can't be expected to compile all possible combinations themselves. Once Wayland enters the distributions the devs use, the bugs will get fixed.
    Bitching about bugs during transition periods is pathetic anyway.

    Originally posted by DanL View Post
    It certainly is fatal for a lot of laptop users, especially those who want to run a 3D desktop.
    There are currently no 3D desktops. AFAIK Project Looking Glass by Sun was one of the few projects that were ever released to the public.

    Originally posted by valeriodean View Post
    Buy an Intel card.
    Where do I get an Intel graphics card?

    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
    So? I'm an Ubuntu user and I still think Mir is pretty much nonsense...
    Then switch to another distro without Mir.

    Leave a comment:


  • ᘜᕟᗃᒟ
    replied
    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    Hi MuPuF! I have suggested prior that you guys use kickstarter-ish scheme for this: realistic goals - money - donations - mercenary work.
    My vision is that there is no need to posses 100 developers, there is need for good organization where personal interests (I am *not* talking about altruism here) will drive the development. And 100 developers will come.

    For example, you could start to use phoronix mass media, to post monthly refresher on:
    - accomplished goals (essentially changelog)
    - ongoing efforts, requiring attention (for contributors)
    - required efforts, requiring known specific donation (for supporters and mercenary developers)
    - hardware requirements, for those interested in hardware donation
    - testing USB images, for people interested in ability to run your tests on their nvidia hardware, effortlessly and without interaction; and then submit data to you.

    I understand that you run it as a student project, but if you don't take it seriously, nothing serious can emerge. You know it anyways, so don't take this as a rant
    I'd support that all the way if they did. Like I would eat rice and water for a month to scrape $100+ for that. The rewards would just be bonus and I'd pull coins-rolls out of my ass to get to the goal amounts. I mean $13 avg. for a native linux game on Humble Bundle, and I'd like to think a $20 avg per person on this, multiply a good 60% of ~2 mil Linux users. Lots of dough and more importantly full-paid developers w/ chips and motherboards. If I could get PM and reasonable clock switching and Digital Vibrancy on my Quadro 140m I'd pay $30-$50 a month and wash and feed the developers myself. "Ain't nobody got time fo' Nvidia BS."

    Leave a comment:


  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    Darxus is a Ubuntu user.

    I'm not saying that has anything to do with this, but it does seem somewhat coincidental that he's publicly complaining about Wayland right after Mir is announced and it's obvious his distro isn't going to pursue using it.
    So? I'm an Ubuntu user and I still think Mir is pretty much nonsense...
    I didn't really get to understand what are they up to, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • MuPuF
    replied
    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    Hi MuPuF! I have suggested prior that you guys use kickstarter-ish scheme for this: realistic goals - money - donations - mercenary work.
    My vision is that there is no need to posses 100 developers, there is need for good organization where personal interests (I am *not* talking about altruism here) will drive the development. And 100 developers will come.
    Yes, you already told me your vision. The thing is, paying the devs wouldn't make them work faster, trust me. As for the mercenary work, it won't work as it is almost impossible to predict how long it will take to implement a feature (unless it is a menial task) and I also don't want people to be eager about pushing something just because they want/need the money.

    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    For example, you could start to use phoronix mass media, to post monthly refresher on:
    - accomplished goals (essentially changelog)
    Yeah, that's the point of the TiNDC. No-one seems interested in writing one anymore because there isn't much to report anyway and phoronix tend to relay all the big news anyway.

    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    - ongoing efforts, requiring attention (for contributors)
    See the status matrix: http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix/

    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    - required efforts, requiring known specific donation (for supporters and mercenary developers)
    - hardware requirements, for those interested in hardware donation
    Whenever someone has a donation to make, please propose on IRC.

    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    - testing USB images, for people interested in ability to run your tests on their nvidia hardware, effortlessly and without interaction; and then submit data to you.
    The thing is that we have almost no hardware tests even though we are writing more and more of them (not sure you appreciate how much work this represents).
    Making USB images are useless as long as we don't have enough tests. If someone is interested in writing more, be my guest, this is a very nice way to learn about the hardware!

    Leave a comment:


  • brosis
    replied
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    Darxus is a Ubuntu user.

    I'm not saying that has anything to do with this, but it does seem somewhat coincidental that he's publicly complaining about Wayland right after Mir is announced and it's obvious his distro isn't going to pursue using it.
    Yes, he is, but he is pretty sane (and biker - bikers are awesome ). This is what I found, I can say I am completely with him on Ubuntu; but the whole case of three unfixed, seemingly unrelated bugs is more complex, because those bugs break in XWayland, and upon being fixed expose even deeper bugs.

    I wanted to post in "Wayland situation" that "its a display server, a huge thing, anchored deep, that never goes without bugs; and those get in our face first (after developers) and we have to deal with them, inevitably(as in reporting)"; but I decided against, because I seemed logical to me (systemd, pulseaudio, even unity).

    Leave a comment:

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