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Reasons For Losing Motivation In Wayland

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  • Temar
    replied
    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    YOUR reality does NOT interest me!

    I am denying any criticism, I am denying your blatant claims.

    For disrespecting very spirit of opensource - the core spirit of Linux - and harrasing its users - people should be punished, yes.
    Thanks! This speaks for itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Temar
    replied
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    Read these very forums. The facts are what the facts are whether you like them or not.
    These very forums are full of people who are in denial of reality even if every single of Michael's benchmarks shows them that the oss driver is not yet en par with the proprietary one.

    You've done this with no evidence, no links, no benchmarks, no quotes. Nothing. You have nothing.
    Are you just lurking on the forums or do you actually read Michael's articles? Show me the articles where the oss driver has better performance, better power management or just better opengl/opencl support. In very few benchmarks the open source might perform better than the proprietary one. In most of the benchmarks however it performs worse.

    Leave a comment:


  • computerquip
    replied
    Originally posted by makomk View Post
    That's not exactly surprising - there's very little to Wayland, nearly all of the functionality is provided by third party projects and libraries.


    Good luck with that. PulseAudio is at what, 4.0 now? Still a pain, still randomly gobbles up excessive amounts of RAM and CPU, still gets wedged in weird states where audio doesn't work properly or at all. Everyone seems to have just moved on to the next big thing. I'm tempted to abandon it altogether at times, even though it has much more functionality than pure Alsa.
    This type of logic is flawed. To assume all projects are like this because of PulseAudio is borderline racism-style logic. Have you used Weston? It is usable. Using XWayland, I can function on Weston almost as well as I do on a Fluxbox system.

    Hopefully, whenever KDE4's backend stabilizes, it'll pick up a bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • makomk
    replied
    Originally posted by nomadewolf View Post
    The problem here seems to be more on 3rd party projects than on Wayland itself.
    While it is a pitty that open-source software is constatly subject to this kind of problems, it is the reality, and we should try to further improve the interconections between projects that depend upon another, instead of just giving up.
    That's not exactly surprising - there's very little to Wayland, nearly all of the functionality is provided by third party projects and libraries.

    Originally posted by MartinN View Post
    Mir aside, if there's anything that will turn people off from Wayland is buggy, unstable and unusable code. It can't all be about new features, stability/usability matters too. Since it's at 1.0+... there's no reason why it should not be usable and mostly crash-free.
    Good luck with that. PulseAudio is at what, 4.0 now? Still a pain, still randomly gobbles up excessive amounts of RAM and CPU, still gets wedged in weird states where audio doesn't work properly or at all. Everyone seems to have just moved on to the next big thing. I'm tempted to abandon it altogether at times, even though it has much more functionality than pure Alsa.

    Leave a comment:


  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    If you mean with "some people" literally thousands of delivered systems than you are right, those "few systems" obviously don't count as facts. Welcome to lala-land, where one persons experience count more than 1000s of successful deployments.
    What you fail to realize is that a large proportion of those buyers -do- have problems and complain loudly. Many of them come right here to this very forum. Really when was the last time you looked at AMD bug tracker? It really is worth a good look.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vim_User
    replied
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    I never claimed that they won't work for some people. But that is few and far between. Just because you are able to be ignorant of it's buggyness doesn't mean that everyone else can. And -that- is the fact.
    If you mean with "some people" literally thousands of delivered systems than you are right, those "few systems" obviously don't count as facts. Welcome to lala-land, where one persons experience count more than 1000s of successful deployments.

    Leave a comment:


  • duby229
    replied
    I never claimed that they won't work for some people. But that is few and far between. Just because you are able to be ignorant of it's buggyness doesn't mean that everyone else can. And -that- is the fact.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vim_User
    replied
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    I deal with the catalyst driver regularly. I maintain a network for medical providers. Mostly linux thin clients. I have evaluated catalyst in dozens of scenarios. For my needs the OSS driver is obviously the better choice.

    I can't think of a single scenario where guaranteed daily or even hourly kernel panics are "superior in every way". Come on. Lets be realistic here.

    EDIT: The OSS drivers have superior desktop performance, hibernation works, I've never seen a kernel panic yet, Multimonitor configurations work great, 3d rendering is accurate and performance has exceeded early expectations.

    These are the facts whether you like them or not.
    Two AMD systems here, both with Catalyst. No kernel panics, no rendering glitches, hibernation works without any problems. Oh, and performance is not on par with the Windows Catalyst, but still better than the FOSS driver. And it has proper power management.

    A few years ago I worked for a OEM that delivered all PC systems with Ubuntu (8.04, later 10.04) by default, all with proprietary drivers. There were no problems at all with the AMD drivers (and FWIW, also not with the Nvidia drivers).

    These are the facts, whether you like them or not.

    Leave a comment:


  • brosis
    replied
    Originally posted by Temar View Post
    You have a very selective perception. A single card that uses special optimizations outperforms the catalyst in a few tests.
    I will run full test suit in several days; its not special optimizations - they are in GIT now; and the idea is NOT to outperform catalyst, but to IMPROVE the existing situation - the driver runs at 80%-110% of catalyst, which is SUFFICIENT.

    Originally posted by Temar View Post
    Look at the rest of the test, they benchmarked quite a few cards there.
    The rest does not interest much, because this was intersection between Vadim's testing and that of Michael - from intersection, one already sees +30%..+100% improvement on same card (5750) running similar tests, between opensource (Michael), catalyst(Michael) and opensource (Vadim).

    Originally posted by Temar View Post
    Says the one who actually claims:

    Laughable, you are in total denial of reality.
    YOUR reality does NOT interest me! Opensource driver provides everything I need already.

    Originally posted by Temar View Post
    Please do that. If you can't stand criticism on your precious open source drivers then i guess the only way to keep your views intact is by trying to get people banned. This is exactly the behaviour one expects from zealots.
    I am denying any criticism, I am denying your blatant claims - you are NOT using opensource driver on radeon; you have NO IDEA how far it progressed; I never denied the weak points of opensource driver; and I am not imposing you which driver you should run.
    For disrespecting very spirit of opensource - the core spirit of Linux - and harrasing its users - people should be punished, yes.

    Leave a comment:


  • zwastik
    replied
    Originally posted by brosis View Post
    This is same old BS as with Logitech crap. If Logitech refuses to support Linux, its Logitech sucking, not Linux.
    If Nvidia or Catalyst don't support Wayland, its them sucking, not Wayland. Also, Wayland is new technology, so chicken-egg. This problem never exists with opensource!
    Agree.


    BTW this is just tabloid like "news". Please Mr Michael keep it professional, don't post bullshit, thanks.

    Leave a comment:

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