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GNOME Will Move Full-Speed With Wayland Support

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  • Originally posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    What if Wayland moves its ass once for all? It is almost vaporware.
    Can people stop making this ridiculous claim that its vaporware? Wayland/weston has been usable for a while now, it simply hasn't been adopted by distros yet because of driver support and gnome and kde aren't finished porting to it yet (but they are making good progress).


    • Originally posted by agd5f View Post
      Regardless of whether you prefer wayland or mir, both are currently lacking a certain amount of what some would call essential functionality in comparison to X. Off the top of my head:
      - Multi-GPU support
      - Hybrid laptop (PowerXpress, Optimus) support
      - modeswitching API
      - multi-display API
      These are obviously not insurmountable, but still a lot of work. Just something to keep in mind.
      Multi-GPU isn't explicitly in the protocol per se, since there's no rendering in the protocol. We expose the concept of outputs, and which surfaces are on which outputs, but you're right in that making that association, and having the clients do something sensible, is tricky. As is doing that at all within the EGL framework ...

      Hybrid laptops mostly fall under the same banner.

      Modeswitching isn't something we want in core protocol, exposed to clients. A special-purpose display configuration API would be useful, but in lieu of what most clients use it for, we've got a fullscreening API, which allows clients to request their surfaces to be displayed fullscreen, with the compositor choosing the best method. This also allows for things like falling back to stretch blits if required.

      We support multiple outputs every bit as well as we do single outputs. (Ditto input - there's no singleton path there either.)

      It is definitely a lot of work and tedious implementation, but certainly there's nothing in the protocol which would stand in our way.


      • Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
        Can people stop making this ridiculous claim that its vaporware?
        Linux is all about the freedom for people who've never written a line of code in their lives, to yell at those who write millions for not doing more.


        • Originally posted by daniels View Post
          Linux is all about the freedom for people who've never written a line of code in their lives, to yell at those who write millions for not doing more.
          One of the most accurate quotes about Linux ever written...


          • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
            Yeah Canonical sucks I know. Need I remember you that if there was no Ubuntu and all you had was Arch and that Slackware shit or fedora linux would still only be on servers? They actually did a lot for linux. In fact I know people, non-techies, who wouldn't touch linux, but they use Ubuntu for browsing and basic stuff that they do. Why? Cause they installed Ubuntu and it worked for them. Ubuntu is a noob friendly distro and it's a great way to convince people to try linux. For that in itself you should thank Canonical. Valve is now coming to Ubuntu, not to arch, and if there wasn't Ubuntu we probably wouldn't have had Steam on linux right now. They made linux more popular and now corporations turn their attention to desktop linux. That is a great thing. They already changed desktop linux and they will only continue to change it more. They realize how stupid and arrogant these so called community leaders are and how unfocused on usability they are and take charge and do things for the end user. If that means writing their own desktop server so be it. It takes balls not to compromise and strike out on your own, but you wouldn't know about it.
            Damn, does canonical pay u for such bullcrap? Why u picked arch and slack? And fedora is supposed to be bleeding edge distro for desktop, since rhel is for servers, but u couldn't google it. I have to remind u, that before ubuntu there were opensuse,mandriva and those distributions also were very easy to use. Why would i thank canonical for bringing retards like u to linux? U are saying that people who worked hard, let it be xorg, kernel, kde,gnome, devs are just nothing and all was made by canonical, that so untrue and retarded. VALVE is not comming to ubuntu, valve is coming to linux and using linux for their steam box and not because ubuntu it's because two reasons:
            a) They said windows8 is not what they expected, which sounds bs
            b) They want their own console and more money, so yeah they use linux and that's not the bad thing, atleast they are honest and not faggots like canonical people who "accidentally" post bs on their blogs.
            And releasing .DEB package and calling it ubuntu only package, makes no fing sense and normal linux users know it. It's just executable files/libraries/ whatever packaged as .deb and that's all. And it is repackaged same day it's released. But yeah they released it .deb because ubuntu is the most popular among noobs and is repackaged debian...
            Balls eh? If they had balls they would helped linux to move on. Check their contributions, u call it balls? You are mentally disabled.


            • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
              Of course windows remained and remains superior but Ubuntu was good also
              So what you are saying here is basically: I use the inferior solution, but instead of helping to make it better I bitch around on forums how it sucks. Like your bitching about Software Manager, you complain that something does not work as you want it to, but instead of looking into the issues and help to improve the software (and you state that you are a developer) you just complain about it and wait for someone else to fix the issues.
              I prefer the
              idiots who can code
              to the idiots that can code, but don't actually do anything.


              • As it seems E people are also not interested in Mir.

                Michael give those fine gentlemen some publicity.


                • Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                  As it seems E people are also not interested in Mir.

                  Michael give those fine gentlemen some publicity.
                  well is to be expected since wayland is here now is mostly superior to Mir plus is backed by Xorg foundation and all major toolkit and DE which guarantee a long term healthy life.

                  On the other hand Mir is witchcraft at this point and only backed by canonical and probably only will be supported by unity for a while since i seriously doubt canonical can keep up with out of tree patches for Qt/Gtk/Efl/Kde/Gnome/e17/etc. Actually i suspect in the end Mir will be for mobile ubuntu only and all desktop distros including ubuntu will support wayland because i suspect they will go the android way with ubuntu mobile and use an unity sdk for mobile apps with Qml and for some reason i suspect Mono with Qt bindings instead of C++ to try to grab many developers fast and fill their software store ASAP but prolly it will not support linux desktop apps easily at least.

                  So Mir is probably a need for canonical to be able to dual license[GPL for community / closed source + DRM for actual phone makers] and link with SoC blobs drivers and have something workable fast enough to interest carriers and manufacturers in ubuntu mobile as another android plataform like but without google in your neck ofc with a store of ubuntu specific apps and i belive mark wanna make this mobile apps available in the ubuntu desktop store[mac/ios like] and for this wayland or Mir work fine enough and be easily abstracted in a lower layer[since in the desktop prolly they can use the FOSS version of mir or wayland freely]


                  • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    Nobody gives a flying fuck about your community. Most users never find out such community exists.
                    Users are part of the community BO$$.

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    The community that you love so much is basically made out of idiots who can code. They do not have a direction except what code they want to write for the next month.
                    My God! People working on technical projects have technical concerns!

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    Gnome 3 became the shit it was because there was no one leading the programmers. That is the problem, programmers, most of them, aren't visionaries, and don't understand the grandma wanting to use her computer. And they don't care cause they can show of with their hax000r skilzzzz in the terminal and don't understand that most people hate using the damn terminal.
                    Actually, Gnome 3 was produced according to a well defined "vision" set out by a professional designer (you know, exactly what you were asking for here).

                    Although, I do personally admit I have no idea why anyone would have that large a revulsion to using the terminal. That said, you have not needed to use it in a long time. Linux administration works great (and for me often better) with the terminal sure, but then when was your grandma expected to do that? The only reason they do not do that on Windows is it comes pre-configured on her computer (or her grandkids do it).

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    Everyone can contribute? Sure, and it ends up a mess. Direction, that is what Canonical is pushing. And, if executed right, it can finally bring linux to the masses. There is no personality cult unless you consider Bill Gates a personality cult for imposing the direction to Microsoft. Sometimes a good leader can show people the way in a better way than just having a trillion programmers each doing his thing and hoping that everything will end up a good user experience somehow...
                    The community is a leader in of itself, and it is what is supposed to provide guidance and "vision" to the people working within it. That is why we have agreed upon standards in the first place that have moderated things and made them work (and that is my main complaint with your argument, your assertion that nothing works). The love of a dictatorial strongman here is more than a little disconcerting.

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    The freedom of linux is the freedom to be mediocre since that's where it's at right now. Most uncool things that are actually necessary don't get done since programmers only want to work on cool haxo0or kernel low level shit to show off.
                    Considering the amount of commercial and government investment in Linux, I would say that plenty of "uncool" things do end up getting done simply because these developer's employers want them. As much as we may all say that anyone can get into Linux (which is still true, with shining examples such as Marek), it actually is mostly dominated by commercial or otherwise paid developers (something I have heard you deny several times) who get paid to work on the hard and gritty stuff that is necessary. You act like Canonical is trying to bring professionalism to Linux, when they are arguably the least professional on the block (which is part of the reason they have such a bad reputation with other vendors).

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    I was just looking around for a laptop on some online hardware shops and was pleasantly surprised to see quite a few of them that sported Ubuntu as the default instead of Windows. You're considering marketing to be selling snake oil when actually marketing is very good if you want to get your program noticed. Even if all that Canonical does is just marketing, that is good since nobody bothers to promote linux to the end user.
                    I am not going to argue the point of the laptops, even though I have only seen them in mostly niche stores with fairly terrible hardware offerings (such places have been selling Linux for a long time now, even before Ubuntu). However, if Canonical's primary focus was to push Linux on hardware I think they would deserve a bit more credit. It actually strikes me as odd that Canonical is trying to be the next Apple and yet is failing to see where they actually make their money from - dedicated Apple hardware.

                    I actually think that Canonical should have opened up a hardware business selling specialty high-end Ubuntu powered workstations and laptops, where things would "just work" as they would have full control of the hardware. Just setup a customized LTS release and ship. Instead they try to make all of these deals with other hardware vendors and seem to repeatedly fall flat on their face, as they have considerably less pull than Microsoft on these same hardware vendors.

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    Compared to windows. Always compared to windows.
                    I was also using Windows at the time. Don't make me laugh. If you can arrogantly exert that Linux flat out sucks, I can definatly apply that same moniker to the versions of Windows that were out at the time.

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    And I do not say that everything was done by Canonical. But they pushed for it even if others were the ones that actually were convinced and did the actual work. Again, vision works. Still Ubuntu remains the easiest distro to get it to work (including Mint which is based on Ubuntu). That in itself says all that you need to know about Shuttleworth. He actually cares about user experience. I don't agree with his Unity interface but people seem to like it. Most aren't power users freaking for more control over their system.
                    Red Hat created NetworkManager for it's own purposes, not because they suddenly had this beam of revelation from Saint Shuttlerworth. Lennart Poettering created PulseAudio and systemd for his own purposes, again not because Canoncal made him suddenly realize there was a desktop market. These technical improvements that have deeply impacted desktop users would have come with or without Ubuntu. The notion that Ubuntu is the easiest to setup is still one I may dispute, but my main complaint here is that you are still giving Ubuntu way too much credit for other people's hard work.

                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    I don't agree with his Unity interface but people seem to like it.
                    Also, by admitting this are you saying that you are not an end-user, like I apparently am? Because you actually are, and so am I.
                    Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 14 March 2013, 12:57 PM.


                    • Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                      In fact the more I look at online stores in my country (Romania) the more I see that Ubuntu is quite well represented. There are a lot of laptops that come with Ubuntu by default or Windows 8. From well known vendors not no names. I think Canonical's push to default OS for laptops is actually working.

                      Windows since windows xp is pretty good. Back in 2001 there was no equivalent to it in the linux world in terms of user experience. Come to think about it, a lot of windows xp features haven't been surpassed even to this day by linux. A great example: games.
                      Windows is shit, all versions of it. You would have to pay me serious money to use that ridiculous and sorry example of an OS, made by once the most valued corporation with de facto monopoly - yet uni students and hobbyist bettered it. I can't really say what would be better example of shitty monopolies.
                      Last edited by moilami; 14 March 2013, 01:23 PM.