More Mir Talking Points Come Out Of Canonical

[e8hffff]

And why not the other way around? Merge Mir into Wayland-- you know, the solution that actually HAS all the parts "Done right" and ACTUALLY complete instead of a giant TODO list of some of the hardest goals to achieve in a display server, let alone in 6months?

Because, yet again, Wayland is at a cross roads. They have failed to get any specific uptake other than side-lining with libs.

Canonical a needs a different flowchart and algorithms in a display-server so they decided to create their own. It's not a conspiracy other than the plan is to take Linux to mobile devices and to tackle a major problem of drivers support for those devices. The conspiracy is they may cut into Apple and Google market shares.

This comes down to license and copyright e8hffff, thats all this is. With Wayland Canonical can't dictate its direction, with Mir they can-- more specifically thanks to the CLA they can even change the license of it at will. Now, I'm not saying CLA's are evil, I'm not Funkstar, but quite frankly...I dont trust Canonical anymore.

There's no reason not to trust them. They give away their software for free, and any content added becomes open source. If they ever go super commercial then you can fork the code or copy parts out.

They've been making it very clear that they want to be the only name in the Linux ecosystem and want any projects they use to be under their control-- hence Unity, Mir, Ubuntu Software Center, hence the lack of even the word "Linux" on their website. They WANT to distance themselves as far away from the "Linux" Name as possible, because it implies community and NOT a single company idea and thats exact what Canonical wants-- a single company ecosystem.

No other Linux Distro is attempting to hit the mobile market, so they will look different, the Tall Poppy. Other Distro will want to implement the same solutions once they see the course.

I don't know what you're going on about Ubuntu not being a community event. Get on Launchpad and you can easily share or partake in projects.

[e8hffff]

Right, for Wayland a project that has been in development in the open for years; has buy-in from pretty much all major players in the open source world, Intel/Red Hat/etc; is the accepted successor to X.org by pretty much everyone; will be used in Sailfish and Tizen; has support of all major toolkits, Qt, Gtk+, EFL, SDL, etc...

Sorry to say but Plasma-Active, Tizen and Sailfish are going no where.

I would love Plasma-Active to be a success but it's crippled by lack of flash device images, driver support and functionality. No one will buy or develop for an ecosystem that is restricted or appears to have failed, like these OS's are.

Majority of Chinese tablet and phone manufacturers use Android or a derivative remake like (Baidu Yi or OPhone?), so Sailfish, Tizen, or Plasma-Active, don't have a chance. Are you going to help port Sailfish, Tizen, or Plasma-Active, to each device without datasheets and code specifics to control the hardware? We are talking about years of work whilst each device becomes obsolete as you start to get numbers. No way are you going to get the device numbers into a market to promote them as a solution people want. They may have had a chance 5 years ago. We need a reality check point.

So now we know the difficulties, it's clear Canonical has the answers to broaden Linux Users access to hardware. They have mastermind a plan and shown proof of concept to piggyback on Android whilst still keeping true to Linux's base. A win for all Linux Users.

[psychoticmeow]

Man, the trolling here is terminal. I'm not sure why I signed up.

[TemplarGR]

There is no future for discrete GPUs?

Right.

I guess there's no future for gaming either.

What was Valve thinking coming to Linux?

Regardless, it's a bit premature to spell out the demise of NVIDIA. I think they've been following the "hardware evolutions" close enough to get into the mobile market, which is why Tegra sales make up 20% of their total revenue right now. Going the way of Matrox is a declaration a bit too early to make.

Nope, there isn't a future for discrete GPUs... I am not talking about.. right now, but soon enough they will be obsolete...

NVIDIA made the right choice with Tegra, given what they had to work with... In my opinion, too little, too late...

As for gaming , not only it has a future, it has a BRIGHT future, in terms of technology. And Linux will become a big part of that. That is why Valve is coming... Have a little patience...

[Linuxhippy]

Hmm

I wonder where the few die-hard pro-Ubuntu fighters here come from ... maybe canonical

[dee.]

Sorry to say but Plasma-Active, Tizen and Sailfish are going no where.

I would love Plasma-Active to be a success but it's crippled by lack of flash device images, driver support and functionality. No one will buy or develop for an ecosystem that is restricted or appears to have failed, like these OS's are.

Majority of Chinese tablet and phone manufacturers use Android or a derivative remake like (Baidu Yi or OPhone?), so Sailfish, Tizen, or Plasma-Active, don't have a chance. Are you going to help port Sailfish, Tizen, or Plasma-Active, to each device without datasheets and code specifics to control the hardware? We are talking about years of work whilst each device becomes obsolete as you start to get numbers. No way are you going to get the device numbers into a market to promote them as a solution people want. They may have had a chance 5 years ago. We need a reality check point.

So now we know the difficulties, it's clear Canonical has the answers to broaden Linux Users access to hardware. They have mastermind a plan and shown proof of concept to piggyback on Android whilst still keeping true to Linux's base. A win for all Linux Users.

What alternate reality are you living in and how did you get there?

[bwat47]

Because, yet again, Wayland is at a cross roads. They have failed to get any specific uptake other than side-lining with libs.

Canonical a needs a different flowchart and algorithms in a display-server so they decided to create their own. It's not a conspiracy other than the plan is to take Linux to mobile devices and to tackle a major problem of drivers support for those devices. The conspiracy is they may cut into Apple and Google market shares.



There's no reason not to trust them. They give away their software for free, and any content added becomes open source. If they ever go super commercial then you can fork the code or copy parts out.



No other Linux Distro is attempting to hit the mobile market, so they will look different, the Tall Poppy. Other Distro will want to implement the same solutions once they see the course.

I don't know what you're going on about Ubuntu not being a community event. Get on Launchpad and you can easily share or partake in projects.

Wayland "failing to be adopted" is not the situation you are painting it out to be. Wayland development has only been getting more and more active, its developed by many experienced xorg developers, it gaining support from all the toolkits, the major desktops are *currently* in the process of being ported to it, and it will be used by multiple mobile operating systems in the near future.

So tell me, what exactly is wayland doing wrong, how are they failing? Would you be happier if they tried to force themselves into distros before everything is ready? Do we want another pulseaudio situation where its put into production too early and is an awful buggy transition? Just because wayland isn't being used in distros yet does NOT mean that it's "failed to get any uptake". Gnome and KDE *will* be using wayland in the future, its not a pipe-dream, the porting is going on right now.

GTK and Qt are just about there with the tookit support, afiak GTK 3.8 will have a fully-working wayland backend. They are now working on porting the window managers (kwin and mutter) to wayland. Since the major desktop's aren't quite ready for wayland yet, then its fairly obvious that it would be impossible/pointless to deploy wayland at this point in time, even if wayland itself is "ready". The only thing I see canonical potentially doing better is doing a quiker job of porting unity to mir then its taking gnome and kde to port to wayland. But on that note, I have serious doubts that unity's 2014 timeline for this is even remotely feasible. Wayland has been in development for years by developers that are far more experienced in this area than canonical, and work has been going on for quite some time getting the toolkits and window managers ported, and its still not ready. And people seriously believe that a small company like canonical can get all of this done by themselves by 2014? Yeah, I don't fucking think so. If they do ship mir on the desktop by 2014 it will be a buggy half-assed mess.

So lets recap canonical's planned timeline here. Mir has only been in development for a very short time, and by 2014 canonical plans to:

Complete mir
Complete GTK/QT mir backends
Port unity to mir
Re-write unity in QT5/QML
Deploy mir/re-written unity in 2014

yeah, somehow I see that timeline slipping.

[Akka]

Because, yet again, Wayland is at a cross roads. They have failed to get any specific uptake other than side-lining with libs.

Canonical a needs a different flowchart and algorithms in a display-server so they decided to create their own. It's not a conspiracy other than the plan is to take Linux to mobile devices and to tackle a major problem of drivers support for those devices. The conspiracy is they may cut into Apple and Google market shares.



There's no reason not to trust them. They give away their software for free, and any content added becomes open source. If they ever go super commercial then you can fork the code or copy parts out.



No other Linux Distro is attempting to hit the mobile market, so they will look different, the Tall Poppy. Other Distro will want to implement the same solutions once they see the course.

I don't know what you're going on about Ubuntu not being a community event. Get on Launchpad and you can easily share or partake in projects.

Why should wayland merge with a cla infected product from a dying company who has lost money in 10 years soon?

[jalyst]

Sorry to say but Plasma-Active, Tizen and Sailfish are going no where.
So now we know the difficulties, it's clear Canonical has the answers to broaden Linux Users access to hardware. They have mastermind a plan and shown proof of concept to piggyback on Android whilst still keeping true to Linux's base. A win for all Linux Users.

You're clearly not well informed about Sailfish, it uses libhybris just like Ubuntu for mobile (it actually devised it), it has the ability to exploit the Android hw layer in the same way.
It just hasn't opted to follow the Android stack "to the letter" in the same way as Ubuntu, although the latter seems to be slowly moving away from that...
Tizen's a bit of a joke, it's been clear for 9mth+ that it's not following in MeeGo's footsteps as it originally claimed to be, + it's far from being collaborative, it's the Samsung show, I'm amazed Intel's still on-board.
Plasma's not really in the picture, other than to be a good little incubator & feedback loop for MeR/Nemo/Sailfish....

[e8hffff]

...So tell me, what exactly is wayland doing wrong, how are they failing? Would you be happier if they tried to force themselves into distros before everything is ready? Do we want another pulseaudio situation where its put into production too early and is an awful buggy transition? Just because wayland isn't being used in distros yet does NOT mean that it's "failed to get any uptake". Gnome and KDE *will* be using wayland in the future, its not a pipe-dream, the porting is going on right now...

So you admit Wayland has schedule problems that are incompatible with what Canonical needs to release their mobile assault! Therefore Mir is justified in being embellished.